YouTube transcript
Video ID: xuq1e_KmUIg
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] what happens when an engineer realizes
[0:01] that people matter more than technology
[0:03] my guest chog has spent 20 years at top
[0:06] companies like John Deere leading
[0:08] digital transformation supply chain
[0:10] modernization and Executive coaching but
[0:12] here's what's fascinating despite his
[0:14] Stanford education and Engineering
[0:16] background his biggest leadership lesson
[0:18] wasn't about technology it was about
[0:20] people trust and transformation how do
[0:23] you lead when everything is changing how
[0:25] do you build trust when employees don't
[0:27] believe in leadership and what
[0:29] hard-earned lesson can you take from
[0:30] sho's career this episode is packed with
[0:33] real world leadership wisdom coaching
[0:35] insight and career defining moments
[0:37] let's dive in okay everybody uh I'm with
[0:40] chog this is uh the aligned ambition
[0:43] podcast and I want you all to imagine
[0:45] for a second that you're leading a team
[0:47] at a legacy company and suddenly
[0:48] everything is changing you have ai
[0:50] automation supply chain disruptions and
[0:53] now you need a coach to guide you
[0:54] through it an executive coach that's
[0:56] value based who would you go to we got
[0:59] churro here could uh he's our guest
[1:01] speaker and he is a Right End person for
[1:04] this kind of challenge he's a Stanford
[1:06] trained engineer turned leadership coach
[1:08] and he spent 20 years at top companies
[1:11] spearheading digital transformation
[1:13] supply chain modernization and Executive
[1:15] coaching uh so trog I'm curious if you
[1:19] could just give us a quick introduction
[1:20] to yourself did I miss anything there no
[1:23] I mean you said it better than my
[1:24] LinkedIn probably did so thank you uh
[1:27] again chirak panjikar um
[1:30] everything you said is absolutely right
[1:32] um train I got my masters in
[1:34] Manufacturing Systems at Stanford I was
[1:38] uh working in the US um after that and
[1:42] then I I had a chance to go back to
[1:45] India which is where I'm from uh in 2006
[1:49] uh to start um to be one of the first
[1:52] employees with uh John Deere to set up
[1:55] their India facility um in their virtual
[1:58] manufacturing um
[2:00] position so um my wife and I didn't have
[2:03] children at that time and uh we said
[2:05] well we always wanted to go back to
[2:08] India since that's where our family was
[2:09] from and this position was in the same
[2:12] town that uh both my wife and I grew up
[2:15] in so we said perfect uh we can go back
[2:18] and um so I I was like I said one of the
[2:22] first employees with my company uh John
[2:25] Deere which is where I still work um and
[2:28] um John in India sorry and uh set up
[2:33] that facility had a whole bunch of
[2:35] different roles in managerial in
[2:38] individual contributor roles um I was a
[2:41] new product program manager I was an IT
[2:44] program manager um people leader of a
[2:48] fairly large team um about 250
[2:53] people excuse me and uh in 2018 I got a
[2:59] chance chance to come through deer on an
[3:01] expert assignment in the US um as again
[3:05] it was a developmental opportunity um
[3:08] and my wife and I since like we' lived
[3:10] in the US but by then we'd had children
[3:13] and we always wanted our kids to have a
[3:15] flavor for what our life was we said
[3:17] okay let's take a two-year gig um and
[3:20] come and that two-year gig is become now
[3:24] seven years big and more and Counting
[3:27] and um so now I'm based out of the K
[3:30] North Carolina area um and uh within
[3:35] deer in I think 2013 I may have the year
[3:39] there about 2013 or so I we used to have
[3:43] an internal coaching Cadre um so I was
[3:46] one of those members and we used to have
[3:48] a fairly
[3:49] functional um group of coaches who would
[3:54] coach members or or upand cominging
[3:57] leaders and high potential employees
[4:00] um and that's so I did this coaching for
[4:05] about seven six six years thereabouts uh
[4:08] I think 2019 was the last I did it and
[4:11] then you know you know that coincided
[4:14] with the time that I was here and I had
[4:16] other responsibilities and I stopped
[4:18] that and um early 2 2024 I was like I
[4:24] was feeling a little I'd say unsure of
[4:28] what's happening with myself I was like
[4:31] feeling a
[4:32] little in a funk if I may use that
[4:35] phrase and when I did some reflection I
[4:37] felt that you know hey I was at my best
[4:40] when I was a coach so I said okay let me
[4:43] get back into coaching and um so while I
[4:47] still have my job I am also um an
[4:50] executive leadership career coach um
[4:54] like for me I don't like to bracket
[4:56] myself as an ex coach or Y coach coach
[5:00] uh I think a coach is a coach um and uh
[5:04] from my perspective
[5:06] um I'm I just like to help people and I
[5:10] have found that helping people helps me
[5:13] uh become a lot better at what I do so
[5:17] that's that's about
[5:18] me that's huge thanks for sharing that
[5:21] and I think that's amazing that you have
[5:24] such a successful career and an amazing
[5:26] education and you're taking a a
[5:31] different path than a lot of people
[5:33] where you're leaning into coaching and
[5:36] finding values based work and so I'm
[5:39] curious what leadership Journey along
[5:41] the way made you realize
[5:45] that um I've so I've always felt that
[5:51] for me
[5:53] um leadership is not just about My
[5:57] Success um I think the uh the team that
[6:01] I you know started out my my first
[6:03] leadership experience was quite
[6:06] transformative for me um in that I was
[6:10] along with developing my own
[6:13] organization um like I said I was the
[6:15] first employee at in in that function so
[6:19] I I had to set it up you know I had to
[6:21] set up practices I had to set up
[6:23] policies I had to set I had to do some
[6:25] of the hiring and recruitment I had to
[6:27] do like whole bunch of it along with
[6:29] also doing my work and and the job
[6:33] itself was very
[6:34] exciting but I realized that what we
[6:38] were doing at that time without going
[6:40] into too many details was quite
[6:42] futuristic for 2006 okay so like today
[6:45] it's fairly common place but 19 years
[6:48] ago it was like quite futuristic to
[6:51] having to create that Vision having to
[6:54] create that theme camarad or whatever
[6:57] was just as important as getting my work
[7:00] done cuz if people are not bought in it
[7:02] doesn't work right and as far as
[7:05] possible I've tried to keep that uh
[7:08] philosophy like if I can't do this
[7:11] alone um and I've tried to be as true to
[7:14] it as
[7:17] possible makes that sorry go ahead no
[7:21] that that I think that's powerful like
[7:24] you it sounds like I just play back at
[7:26] you it sounds like you're saying you
[7:28] went into this role as a technical
[7:30] expert and then you realized that the
[7:32] people were even more important than the
[7:34] technical expertise is that what you're
[7:36] saying absolutely I mean I think you put
[7:39] it really well like for
[7:41] me it was we ended up or you end up
[7:45] starting I mean when you look at a
[7:48] resume you know you know their technical
[7:52] skills at some level but you also need
[7:54] to know the person behind that resume um
[7:57] because that person has certain
[7:59] characteristics has certain
[8:01] capabilities um and you need those just
[8:04] as much to succeed as their technical
[8:08] knowledge if that makes sense so often
[8:10] times we would hire we would recruit on
[8:16] potential yeah that that makes perfect
[8:18] sense to me I can't tell you how many
[8:19] times in my organization I've seen
[8:21] someone maybe failing in one area and
[8:23] then you if you map his skill sets to
[8:25] another area his or her school skill
[8:27] sets they can thrive in a different area
[8:29] and so knowing your people is so
[8:31] essential to not just your team but the
[8:33] organization as a whole and so that's
[8:35] really insightful with that in mind
[8:38] what's your leadership style what's the
[8:40] one principle you say that you live by
[8:42] or what I I'm trying to I'm not asking
[8:44] the question the right way if I was if I
[8:48] had worked with you for 10 years in that
[8:49] 250 person organization what would I be
[8:52] like oh this is what this is his style
[8:55] you know oh okay um
[9:00] I'd like to say
[9:02] approachable um I would think that at
[9:07] least this is how I'd like to think of
[9:09] myself right
[9:12] is I
[9:14] don't I think people find
[9:19] me and this is uncomfortable talking
[9:21] good things about yourself right but um
[9:24] I think people find me approachable um
[9:28] and um
[9:30] I've tried to be deliberate about that
[9:32] approachability um
[9:35] because if
[9:37] people if I can give my team members a a
[9:41] um a feeling of
[9:44] safety
[9:46] then they can Thrive like I think of
[9:49] myself kind of
[9:53] like maybe I I'll go back to my
[9:55] childhood you know when we would have
[9:57] the circus performers you know there's
[9:58] always safety net I mean they don't need
[10:01] a safety net but there always has to be
[10:02] one and and I've always felt that that
[10:05] leader has to be a kind of a safety net
[10:09] um
[10:10] to the the team members um and then the
[10:14] other thing what I've always felt is and
[10:18] this is again just my
[10:20] opinion is a lot of leadership is
[10:24] to clear out the the the haziness
[10:30] for your employees or for your team
[10:32] members
[10:33] so I think good leaders can take
[10:37] abstract Concepts and convert them into
[10:40] actionable
[10:43] activities versus a a I'd say a not so
[10:47] good leader would
[10:49] probably try to only talk in those
[10:51] abstract terms and then not connect with
[10:54] their employees so I've tried to be as
[10:56] far as possible like take an abstract
[11:00] term and say okay what does this mean in
[11:02] my daily life and how can I live that
[11:04] abstract how can I you know deliver
[11:08] those um
[11:10] qualities um in that and um again some
[11:14] of the stuff I read and research I did
[11:16] that followed in and you know it's
[11:20] that's been the philosophy like taking
[11:22] taking abstract
[11:24] terms and then converting That Into
[11:27] actionable You Know
[11:30] or or visible
[11:32] behaviors yeah I mean that's complex I
[11:34] hear so I hear three things there
[11:37] approachable building safe spaces and
[11:40] then taking a vision and that strategy
[11:43] and then leading into execution and it's
[11:46] not always easy right it's taking an
[11:48] objective and then try to make into the
[11:49] key results oh my gosh it sounds easy on
[11:52] paper but it's hard yeah I mean I I'll
[11:55] put it this way right you have
[11:57] um you know we talk about a leader
[12:00] should develop
[12:02] trust you know I mean that's I guess a
[12:05] fairly given statement right but what
[12:07] does that
[12:09] mean you know how do you convert that
[12:13] abstract noun of trust
[12:16] into actionable
[12:18] behaviors you know and and that's the
[12:21] skill of
[12:23] leadership you know the the I've always
[12:27] felt that it's very difficult to Define
[12:31] what is leadership what is trust what is
[12:33] community etc
[12:34] etc but it's very easy to Define what it
[12:37] is like when it is not being displayed
[12:40] so for example you'll hear oh this is a
[12:42] clear case where it's lack of leadership
[12:45] right but there's it's very difficult to
[12:47] Define what is leadership and and I've
[12:50] at least the formula I've used is to
[12:51] convert that those abstract
[12:55] nouns into actionable items or
[12:58] actionable behavior
[13:01] wow so what's the secret there on the
[13:03] team I know building trust especially
[13:05] bridging in that in that large team
[13:08] Bridging the organizational policies and
[13:11] things that might be outside of our
[13:12] control versus the things that are in
[13:16] our control like our interactions with
[13:18] the teams how do you bridge that and
[13:20] then I'm not trying to focus on your
[13:21] corporate leadership here like maybe
[13:24] take it from a perspective of if you're
[13:26] coaching a leader who's saying I'm
[13:27] having trouble building trust with my
[13:29] team
[13:31] because the organization keeps changing
[13:33] policies how how can I hey can you help
[13:36] me coach me through this what what would
[13:38] you advise
[13:40] them so the first question that I would
[13:43] probably ask them
[13:46] is what about these changing policies is
[13:50] changing of
[13:52] philosophies right I mean I don't
[13:55] believe
[13:56] organizations do like a 180 degree turn
[14:00] on their philosophy and on their
[14:02] priorities they might change a policy
[14:04] and some of those policies might
[14:07] be sometimes you know just existential
[14:10] you know um so they need to make those
[14:13] changes and and setting those contexts
[14:17] are
[14:18] important you know
[14:20] um and how do you then
[14:24] take that policy end of the day as a i'
[14:29] would say as a loyal member of the
[14:31] organization your job as a leader is as
[14:34] much to defend that policy to your to
[14:38] your team
[14:39] members but also be that I would say
[14:44] connection to show how this is impacting
[14:48] your employees or your team members
[14:50] daily lives in some way you know if if
[14:54] if as a leader we are not able to pass
[14:57] that message upwards
[15:00] then there is no way um we are doing our
[15:04] effective job cuz as a leader it is just
[15:06] as much of our
[15:08] job to you know be that
[15:12] messenger it's it's not just a one-way
[15:14] message right it has to be a two-way
[15:16] message and to the point of trust that's
[15:20] where I felt that you know people will
[15:23] trust
[15:24] you even if you're giving them bad news
[15:28] if
[15:29] they feel like they can come and be open
[15:32] with
[15:33] you you know um
[15:36] because we are dealing with adults here
[15:39] and you know they know employees and
[15:42] team members know some of the
[15:44] constraints that leaders operate under
[15:47] but if you if we can give them that safe
[15:50] space to come and say you
[15:52] know just speak what's on their mind and
[15:56] if nothing else just went
[15:59] sometimes that's all that you
[16:01] need that's great and so no I love you
[16:04] keep bringing up safe spaces that's a
[16:06] really interesting theme because that's
[16:08] powerful right having an
[16:10] employee me me let's say I'm having
[16:12] trust trust with my team there's this is
[16:13] happening a lot in a lot of
[16:14] organizations right now with the work
[16:16] from home situation it's like oh we're
[16:19] going to do remote forever four years
[16:20] later okay you're back in office five
[16:23] days a week and now M uh BPS large
[16:26] leaders are now having to articulate
[16:28] that down and I think what you're saying
[16:30] here is hey if you're frustrated with
[16:32] that or if that's going to interfere
[16:33] with your family make a safe space for
[16:35] them right make a safe space for them to
[16:37] communicate that to you and also make
[16:40] sure that message gets up maybe
[16:42] anonymously so the feedback gets up to
[16:44] upper management but doesn't doesn't
[16:46] lets the team have a safe based event
[16:48] but also be transparent and not sugar
[16:50] coating it like hey this is our policy
[16:52] now and um and we're gonna have to
[16:53] operate right yeah and I think that's
[16:59] where some of the lack of leadership
[17:01] also gets
[17:03] displayed because people don't mind the
[17:05] what as long as you can have a
[17:08] reasonable
[17:09] why you know um because like I said
[17:12] we're all adults um and I mean I've been
[17:16] happy
[17:17] that I've never I shouldn't say never
[17:21] for the majority of the times you know
[17:23] whenever my leadership has had any
[17:27] conversations theyve also been able to
[17:29] give a good why with it so you know I I
[17:33] would say I'm lucky um but for sure um a
[17:39] Leader's job and maybe this gos more
[17:41] into management rather than leadership
[17:43] but you know as a as a leader of people
[17:46] your job is to be the bridge
[17:48] between your higher organiz your
[17:51] hierarchy and um your upper hierarchy
[17:55] and lower hierarchy maybe I'll that yeah
[17:58] that that's as powerful I'm curious I
[18:00] want to focus on your coaching here what
[18:03] let's flip the script let's say an
[18:04] employee come employee one of those
[18:07] bosses comes up to you and says hey I'm
[18:08] having trouble trusting my boss what's
[18:12] something I think when I read your work
[18:15] it sounded like you're a big and and
[18:17] what you're saying here you're a big
[18:18] believer in agency if we take
[18:20] responsibility for our own action so
[18:22] what would you say to that employee to
[18:23] help them build resilience through a
[18:26] situation like that or how would you
[18:27] coach them through it so the first
[18:29] question would be again you know convert
[18:31] that statement
[18:33] from I'm having difficulty trusting my
[18:37] boss to saying
[18:39] Okay g what what exactly are you
[18:43] struggling to do I I mean that then
[18:46] becomes like then you start getting into
[18:49] that next question becomes like okay
[18:51] when my boss says this I hear
[18:55] this you know and then you get down to
[18:57] saying okay if you hearing
[19:00] that why do you think like that and
[19:03] maybe they say well you know in the past
[19:06] this this this has happened often times
[19:09] and and I don't say this every time but
[19:11] often times it even happens
[19:14] that the problem was never with that
[19:16] boss you know it's it's just baggage
[19:19] that they've carried from a some a
[19:21] completely different boss in a previous
[19:23] job that now makes you never want to
[19:27] trust a boss's words again
[19:29] you
[19:30] know I mean I'm not saying that always
[19:32] is the situation sometimes I mean nobody
[19:35] I don't think we can say we have 100%
[19:38] great bosses on this planet uh but often
[19:42] times it could just be distilling down
[19:46] that and saying okay if you were to give
[19:48] them the benefit of the doubt what would
[19:51] you
[19:54] say and maybe that's that's generally
[19:58] the question that I would ask them like
[19:59] get it down to that question like maybe
[20:02] they're a horrible human being but if
[20:04] you were to give them the benefit of the
[20:06] doubt in What scenario would you give
[20:08] them the benefit of the doubt and then
[20:10] is that scenario
[20:12] reasonable you know CU as a as a as a
[20:15] leader as a manager I can't tell you
[20:18] everything that happens CU I just can't
[20:20] and I
[20:22] shouldn't and and if I
[20:26] can give you some of those
[20:29] reasons then I'm violating you know my
[20:32] oath of office if you will so sometimes
[20:37] you have to put yourself in the shoes of
[20:39] your boss and
[20:41] say okay in What scenario would I give
[20:44] this person the benefit of the doubt um
[20:47] not necessary that that's what is
[20:49] happening um but then start saying okay
[20:52] there is another way to look at this
[20:53] same situation and if if that was the
[20:56] case would you be okay with it
[20:59] you know and not again this maybe it
[21:02] comes off as saying I'm on the boss's
[21:04] side no it's just trying to say the way
[21:08] you're looking at this could there be a
[21:10] different way of looking at the same
[21:12] thing it's perception right reframing
[21:16] the conversation to
[21:19] saying I mean and and then there can be
[21:22] other questions as well but how can you
[21:24] try and reframe the question that's the
[21:26] fundamental of coaching which is
[21:29] if you have a coach the best coaches I
[21:34] believe can help you look at the same
[21:37] problem in different
[21:39] ways right um and then you can stick to
[21:42] your opinion and say well my boss
[21:44] believes this because they don't like me
[21:47] fine you know then of course the
[21:51] question will be okay what are you going
[21:52] to do
[21:53] about um but overall my question my
[21:58] preference is always to at least open
[22:00] different routes for
[22:02] them
[22:03] and try as far as possible to give that
[22:07] benefit of the doubt to
[22:09] people because very easy to jump to
[22:14] conclusions do you see this sounds like
[22:17] it's a common problem in coaching or do
[22:18] you see it a lot of people kind of
[22:20] jumping to
[22:22] conclusions I it's not an uncommon
[22:26] problem if I'll put it that way right
[22:27] it's um a lot of times um I mean
[22:34] granted there are incompetent bosses you
[22:38] know for
[22:40] sure
[22:41] but majority of the times people are
[22:44] really good at what they're
[22:46] doing and they just feel like their
[22:49] manager or their bosses are not seeing
[22:51] the same things and they're seeing
[22:53] something
[22:54] different the question is okay if you
[22:56] were to put yourself in your m man shoes
[22:59] what would what would you say and often
[23:03] times that's like oh I never thought
[23:05] about
[23:08] that yeah and that could be so helpful
[23:11] right they could be to solve the
[23:13] problems then then you can get the real
[23:14] work okay what problem are you actually
[23:15] trying to solve
[23:18] here it's great uh
[23:20] so you mentioned it briefly but can you
[23:23] dive into is there a story behind this
[23:26] you know getting your ACC going for from
[23:29] being
[23:30] so credentialed you know Stanford isn't
[23:33] the easiest School in the world to get
[23:34] into or so I hear and then to to be
[23:38] leading 250 person teams to now
[23:40] Executive coaching what's like what's
[23:43] the driver and who are you trying to
[23:45] help who who's the people that you're
[23:48] targeting right
[23:51] now um okay
[23:55] so honestly Stanford was um I never
[24:00] thought I'd get like like you said it's
[24:02] a pretty difficult school to get in um I
[24:05] I I'll be lying if I said that you know
[24:08] I was always going to get there I was
[24:10] like what you know um and and this was
[24:14] uh this was
[24:15] like gosh 25 24 25 years ago when email
[24:20] was just starting so you know it's like
[24:24] I don't even I can't even comprehend
[24:26] what it's going to be like um
[24:30] but I like I said I've always felt that
[24:34] I do better at whatever it is that I'm
[24:36] doing when I have an outlet to help
[24:40] people right um and I'm fairly clear
[24:44] that for me coaching
[24:47] is I don't want to call it voluntary you
[24:50] know because it is my time but it is
[24:54] excuse me it is my way of helping the
[24:57] community
[24:59] right I don't see myself becoming a
[25:04] full-time coach anytime in the near
[25:06] future okay um it is my way of saying
[25:11] that gives me an outlet to then focus on
[25:14] my
[25:16] job um at least that's where I am right
[25:20] now now your question of how I got into
[25:23] coaching how I got into it was kind of
[25:26] accidental um
[25:29] I ALS but I also found that I I think I
[25:34] got lucky with a really good coach for
[25:38] myself when I was getting into this and
[25:42] I then could see firsthand the power of
[25:45] what a really good coach could do in a
[25:47] very short amount of time and I said
[25:49] well okay well this is what this person
[25:52] did for
[25:55] me seems easy enough yeah uh but it's
[25:59] not um and then you learn and and if you
[26:03] have I mean I I felt that like I said it
[26:07] makes me better at my day
[26:10] job if that makes any
[26:12] sense yeah yeah it makes perfect so it
[26:15] sounds like like dig in there do you had
[26:17] your own executive coach it sounds like
[26:18] and they inspired you was that how it
[26:21] worked uh yes so I
[26:23] was I had an I so in like I said we had
[26:28] an internal coaching G within the
[26:30] company right yeah
[26:32] and just like I was coaching
[26:36] people when I was new in my job I had a
[26:39] coach internal coach who I think I was
[26:44] super lucky with was really invested in
[26:46] me and my
[26:47] success um and all I'm doing right now
[26:51] is Bay It Forward
[26:54] maybe that's awesome so it just had such
[26:57] a big impact on you and you want to have
[26:59] that impact on other people yeah and and
[27:03] that showed me the importance of
[27:06] having a coach because like there were
[27:09] things that I felt uncomfortable talking
[27:12] to my boss or you know my team members
[27:15] and my coach basically said well then
[27:19] who's affected by this you know and I
[27:23] mean it was just one simple question
[27:25] which was like the the realization was
[27:27] if I don't have these conversations with
[27:30] my boss or my team members the only
[27:33] person affected is
[27:34] me you know so I have to do it and and
[27:38] having those conversations later really
[27:41] helped me in my job as well so if my
[27:46] Coach had not asked me those questions
[27:49] you know maybe I would have still been
[27:50] stuck with some of those barriers and
[27:53] and had to pay a price that probably I
[27:55] was not willing to pay
[27:58] yeah it's that's fascinating because I
[28:00] I've had a similar experience with my
[28:02] executive coaches that I've worked with
[28:04] that got me passionate about it but
[28:08] you're C there is something to having
[28:09] that safe space outside of mentors like
[28:12] mentors give you this I don't know about
[28:14] you but all my mentors if they're a
[28:16] partner at some firm they're always
[28:18] telling me how to become a partner at
[28:19] that firm you know like here you got to
[28:21] get back into they're telling you what
[28:22] worked for them and then you have
[28:25] advisers or you have sponsors in your
[28:27] company or helping you move up in the
[28:28] company but it sounds like that coach
[28:30] gives you that safe space to actually
[28:32] figure out what you want right and that
[28:34] you want to be able to do that for other
[28:36] people too right absolutely and and I
[28:38] think that's what so I'm also a mentor
[28:41] right and I'm also a coach and
[28:45] it excuse me I think especially when
[28:48] you're new in coaching you you can't
[28:51] distinguish the two right um but what I
[28:55] realized that
[28:58] coach a good
[28:59] coach
[29:02] is is not
[29:06] the uh how do I put this
[29:09] um the the the maybe I'll put it like in
[29:13] in this in the in a movie or in a story
[29:16] you know um the coach is not the
[29:22] protagonist if if that makes sense you
[29:24] know the coach is the camera
[29:29] versus in a mentoring
[29:32] relationship the mentor is as much of a
[29:36] character in that story as the
[29:39] protagonist whereas a coach is just like
[29:42] just a
[29:44] camera I don't know if that makes any
[29:46] sense but if if the coach is part of the
[29:50] story then the coach is not doing a good
[29:53] job yeah it's kind of it's really
[29:56] interesting I don't know why it keeps
[29:57] coming to mind but It's like Star Wars
[29:58] like your mentors is like Yoda and then
[30:01] but the coach you're just looking in the
[30:04] water you're just it's Luke looking in
[30:06] the water and int helping introspection
[30:08] right and figureing out what you really
[30:10] want exactly the coaches a camera or on
[30:13] a mirror or whatever you may call it um
[30:18] if the and and that's why you can have
[30:21] very powerful coaching
[30:24] moments
[30:26] um I've I've had
[30:28] power I mean I've had good mentoring
[30:30] relationships but I've never had a
[30:32] powerful mentoring moment if that makes
[30:35] sense because I'm just basically talking
[30:37] about what works for
[30:40] me can you tell me give me an example of
[30:42] a powerful coaching moment you've had
[30:44] you can keep it confidential obviously
[30:49] um I so so I think yeah maybe I'll put
[30:53] it this way there was
[30:55] one um
[30:58] situation and this is somebody um I hope
[31:01] sees this podcast at some point as well
[31:03] so uh I'll try and keep it as
[31:06] confidential as you can but they
[31:09] were um battling I would say a personal
[31:14] situation um where they were doing
[31:18] fairly well
[31:20] professionally um
[31:24] but from a I'll just say from a
[31:28] social
[31:30] life perspective they were it it was
[31:34] it's it was not a great situation for
[31:36] them so they were considering and
[31:40] honestly at this point I don't know what
[31:42] result they what what they ended up
[31:43] doing so um cavat there but they called
[31:47] me once and said you know hey these are
[31:49] the situations and there's this really
[31:51] good I mean I'm doing well career-wise
[31:53] but you know this doesn't feel right for
[31:56] me and my family
[31:59] versus this other situation which is
[32:02] probably a not such a great move
[32:05] career-wise but I know my family would
[32:06] be
[32:07] happier
[32:09] um and in that situation all it took me
[32:13] to ask them was well sounds like you're
[32:17] choosing between two really good
[32:20] options and it sounds like both options
[32:24] would have some regrets
[32:28] so which regret would you rather want to
[32:30] live
[32:35] with and that was that was
[32:38] it w you know cuz again life is about
[32:42] making
[32:44] choices and there is if if if there was
[32:48] a choice which was like 100% pros and
[32:51] zero% cons why are we even having this
[32:54] conversation right there has to be some
[32:58] regrets with every choice you
[33:01] make and if you are going to choose
[33:06] something which regret are you
[33:08] comfortable living with I mean like
[33:11] again from from my own personal
[33:13] perspective
[33:15] like maybe the regret I'm comfortable
[33:17] living with now is that you know I'm not
[33:20] in the country I live in I grew up in
[33:23] you know a real sacrifice that's a
[33:26] comfortable that's a reget r that I'm
[33:28] willing to live with for a positive that
[33:31] I'm willing to pay
[33:34] for thank you no thank you for sharing I
[33:36] think that's I think that's my favorite
[33:38] thing about meeting coaches so far or
[33:40] people about coaching is U this industry
[33:44] is the first time I've seen in business
[33:45] where people start being authentic and
[33:47] you start to actually dig beneath those
[33:48] layers and
[33:50] realize yeah it's every there are
[33:53] sacrifices if you're going to pursue a
[33:54] career and make a director in a big
[33:56] company are you willing to have daycare
[33:59] for your kids or are you willing to have
[34:01] a maid or someone to help you out do
[34:03] that stuff and make that sacrifice and
[34:05] is that sacrifice worth it to you or are
[34:09] you g to take the other one and make the
[34:10] career sacrifice you don't get to do
[34:11] both and or or is there a third path and
[34:15] thinking through those and helping
[34:16] people work through that that's that's a
[34:18] human it's a really powerful thing right
[34:20] yeah absolutely and which regret are you
[34:22] more comfortable living with also then
[34:26] allows you in my allows me at
[34:30] least to make peace with the choices I
[34:33] made you know cuz often times we
[34:37] have I mean I used to be this way which
[34:40] was like I would take a path and
[34:44] then whine
[34:46] for the other part you know I feel yeah
[34:50] very human that's very human to do sorry
[34:53] I so that that's kind of so one coaching
[34:57] moment there that's something that I
[34:58] remember and I've tried to use it often
[35:01] which is which regret are you more
[35:03] comfortable living with that's a
[35:05] powerful question thank you for sharing
[35:06] that I might borrow it one of these days
[35:09] feel it's not patented go for it okay
[35:11] thanks thank you I appreciate it the I'm
[35:14] curious since you've been you've been
[35:16] going through the Stanford like you said
[35:18] before the email right when email was
[35:20] coming out what are you seeing the
[35:21] trends of leadership and coaching and
[35:24] over and how are they evolving over the
[35:27] recent years are you seeing any
[35:30] changes
[35:36] um I think technology is going to be a
[35:39] big role
[35:42] player um now is your question related
[35:47] to changes in coaching or changes in
[35:49] leadership or just just dig a to that
[35:53] question it's a
[35:56] good let stick
[35:58] with I guess I'm asking leadership from
[36:01] the perspective of the challenges people
[36:03] will need coaching through what do you
[36:06] are you seeing that change or are these
[36:09] Timeless
[36:10] um I think people will need coaching
[36:16] through um the the biggest so there are
[36:19] two or three questions in my opinion
[36:21] that we as Society or or we as a
[36:25] Workforce haven't quite figured out
[36:27] right one
[36:30] is um what is the relationship between
[36:35] an employee and an organization going to
[36:37] look like in a technology driven world
[36:41] right um and the reason I say that
[36:45] is um I mean you you read the news I'm
[36:49] sure as much as I do and you know we we
[36:52] see hiring spikes and then layoffs and
[36:55] you know and and those layoffs often are
[36:58] not associated with an equal amount of
[37:00] hiring in that field so you hear about
[37:04] how technology is taken some of that
[37:06] away um and I go back just one
[37:10] generation and and maybe just some of
[37:12] that comes from like my own life which
[37:15] is even one generation ago most people
[37:20] would feel like okay I want to retire
[37:23] with this
[37:23] company you
[37:25] know and
[37:28] that
[37:29] Unwritten Bond contract or or Covenant
[37:34] between the employer and employee
[37:36] doesn't exist anymore and and that's
[37:38] going to go down
[37:40] further I I will be super surprised I
[37:46] mean I was reading
[37:47] a uh BBC article just couple of days ago
[37:51] as to how there's a village in India
[37:54] where most people are now YouTube
[37:56] content creators
[37:59] right um of course that's a technology
[38:02] as a force multiplier for employees in
[38:04] this case but what's that contract
[38:08] between employer and employee is going
[38:11] to go through a rapid change in a
[38:13] technology word
[38:14] um and can we pause on that for a second
[38:17] I think that's fascinating yeah I'm
[38:19] seeing similar I'm seeing more people
[38:22] looking at short-term employment and
[38:23] Contracting and gig economy kind of work
[38:26] and even taking big jobs at places like
[38:28] Google or Facebook they're kind of
[38:30] saying I'm going to go into it for two
[38:31] years and same to your point 20 years
[38:35] ago when I started working I did
[38:37] everyone was like wait till you get the
[38:39] gold watch you know wait you stay with
[38:41] the company for that's a huge change
[38:43] very fast and how do you what do you
[38:45] what's your advice to people navigating
[38:47] that right now coaching how would you
[38:49] coach someone through recognizing that
[38:52] maybe the social contracts changeed
[38:53] between employee and
[38:54] Company um
[38:59] again there's no formula for this right
[39:04] because
[39:06] from
[39:09] one so okay there's no formula for the
[39:12] very simple reason that your
[39:13] circumstances are different than
[39:15] mine so what works for you may not work
[39:19] for
[39:20] me may not even be close to what works
[39:23] for me I'll give you an example I mean
[39:24] I'm saying this more from my personal
[39:26] life that is not the case for me right
[39:28] now but as you can tell I'm not from the
[39:32] US right and for a l large amount of
[39:35] time I was on a
[39:36] Visa so if I get laid off versus you get
[39:40] laid off you know the the circumstances
[39:42] are completely different and that's just
[39:44] one
[39:45] example right um so
[39:49] those what would be my standard coaching
[39:52] question might be different based on the
[39:55] circumstances of that person
[39:58] right but what I would probably ask them
[40:01] to focus on is how they can get control
[40:05] of their own narrative
[40:08] back um and what I mean by that
[40:11] is just as much as technology is making
[40:15] it
[40:16] tougher
[40:17] [Music]
[40:18] to or just as technology is making
[40:22] employee
[40:24] work I'll just say redundant in a way it
[40:28] is also making employee work a lot
[40:31] easier and a lot more
[40:33] productive
[40:35] and how can you take control of that
[40:38] narrative how can
[40:41] you help Define yourself more than just
[40:46] your job in a way I mean maybe it's a
[40:49] male thing okay um
[40:52] but if you go meet a
[40:55] stranger okay just go meet a stranger go
[40:57] talk to
[40:59] them within five and and you introduce
[41:03] yourself to them and you introduce each
[41:04] other I'm betting within five sentences
[41:07] you're going to say where you
[41:09] work especially in the Bay Area yep
[41:12] possi well in the Bay Area you're
[41:13] probably talking about like how much
[41:15] your startup has been funded by
[41:18] whichever venture capitalist whatever no
[41:20] no I think your first senten is hi I'm
[41:22] Devin and I work at right um so
[41:27] so your organization kind of becomes
[41:31] part of your
[41:34] narrative it becomes part of your
[41:37] identity right and I believe now in this
[41:42] world
[41:44] that technology allows us to be more
[41:47] than just that identity we are way more
[41:50] than just employees at Google or or John
[41:54] de or
[41:55] whatever so just take what I'm saying
[41:58] right I am a proud John Deere employee
[42:02] and I'm also an executive coach and I'm
[42:04] a father and I'm a husband and you know
[42:07] it's it's always and and technology is
[42:10] going to make more and more ANS possible
[42:14] for
[42:15] us and the the difference between the
[42:18] Haves and the Have Nots I think is going
[42:20] to be those people who can really
[42:22] leverage all these ANS for their benefit
[42:29] that's really powerful no thank
[42:31] you I can't believe how fast the time's
[42:33] going I have already we're already
[42:35] running we're already running the clock
[42:36] so I want to Circle back so that that
[42:38] was originally to the question of what
[42:40] are what are some of the trends you're
[42:42] seeing or problems you intend for people
[42:45] to face and with the changes in Tech and
[42:48] the changes in the landscape leadership
[42:51] landscape and Technology being the main
[42:54] one and then how can people
[42:57] take advant not take advantage but how
[42:59] can they go with the trend rather than
[43:01] bucket and I'm curious what's what's
[43:03] your next one in that group what's
[43:04] another leadership Trend that you're
[43:07] seeing
[43:10] um I think the other one which I would
[43:13] say
[43:15] is um and this is more on the leader
[43:17] side is we're getting a lot more
[43:21] shortterm
[43:24] oriented um
[43:28] and I think we we the the concept of you
[43:32] know it's a fast changing environment
[43:35] Etc can sometimes also be a
[43:37] self-fulfilling
[43:38] prophecy um so you know
[43:44] if as far as I
[43:46] know the day still is 24
[43:50] hours right
[43:53] um yes we have information that comes
[43:57] set us a lot
[43:59] faster right what used to come with in I
[44:03] don't
[44:04] know Middle Ages with a pigeon carrying
[44:07] a message probably now comes within Nan
[44:10] seconds through an email right and that
[44:13] allows you just as much to react as it
[44:18] you know it it's not that different when
[44:21] you try to break it break things so
[44:24] um we can also have some sort of a
[44:29] long-term view I think the balance
[44:32] between short-termism and long-termism
[44:34] has been kind
[44:36] of has been has
[44:39] been I just say there there is always an
[44:42] equilibrium between having a short-term
[44:45] View and a long-term View and I
[44:47] think because of this you know it's a
[44:50] fast changing World etc etc we have
[44:52] become a lot more short-term than
[44:57] longterm and and that balance has
[44:59] probably shifted towards the shortterm
[45:01] vi a lot more and I think we need to
[45:04] bring it back towards uh the long term
[45:09] um if we can do
[45:12] that we will
[45:14] benefit you know I mean you can
[45:18] tell
[45:20] um that and how I would put the how I
[45:24] would distinguish that is if somebody
[45:27] tells you something and then you ask
[45:28] them a
[45:29] question um they have an answer for that
[45:32] like you say okay we want to do this and
[45:33] you say why and then you say okay fine
[45:37] but if you dig a couple of questions
[45:38] further down there's no answer and often
[45:41] times it's those second or third order
[45:44] derivative
[45:46] questions that need to be thought
[45:48] through as to why we're doing
[45:50] something and if we don't do that um
[45:55] we'll we
[45:58] struggle yeah I think it's that ties
[46:00] into a lot of what else you were saying
[46:02] and I'm seeing too and I'm curious your
[46:04] thought here how that ties into what
[46:06] you're saying earlier about values
[46:08] values based decision making and making
[46:11] sure that we people know what they want
[46:14] and know what regrets that they're going
[46:16] to be making it sounds something similar
[46:18] there right it's yeah we kind of are We
[46:21] too reactive and I'm saying that too is
[46:23] too to reactive and how I've been trying
[46:25] to struggle with how do you get get
[46:27] people to be more proactive and in
[46:29] charge of their narrative as well
[46:30] because I feel like people are getting
[46:32] influenced too much by technology and
[46:33] how fastpaced the work is I like what
[46:36] you said earlier about father husband
[46:38] having those priorities like the ants I
[46:40] think are really important I do the same
[46:42] as hey I'm gonna put my daughter to bed
[46:44] every uh at least three times a week
[46:46] that's important to me and knowing it's
[46:48] a priority if I don't do that if I'm not
[46:50] intentional and do the self-work then
[46:52] you can get really stuck and just Rea
[46:55] there there's an infinite amount of
[46:56] things that need to be done instantly
[46:58] now right right and and to to add to
[47:00] that where I would say that is really
[47:02] helpful is because again this employer
[47:04] employee contract is
[47:06] changing right and you will find a lot
[47:09] of
[47:10] people who have followed that old you
[47:14] know I'm an XYZ employee as part of
[47:17] their
[47:18] narrative and then they reach a point
[47:22] where you know the the families or
[47:25] whatever
[47:27] really they've moved on and now this
[47:30] organization has moved on from them too
[47:31] and now they are like completely lost
[47:34] you know so building
[47:37] multiple narratives for yourself and
[47:40] being charge of all the things that you
[47:42] define Yourself by is helpful there too
[47:45] and that's where the long-termism
[47:47] helps and so I'm getting your sense here
[47:49] this is something I think will be on a a
[47:51] cuss for why coaching is going to be so
[47:53] important going for people right
[47:56] absolutely abely because coaching brings
[47:58] those questions out in the open like
[48:01] have you thought of
[48:03] this
[48:05] and if nothing else like I've I've I've
[48:08] had coaches
[48:10] myself who who helped
[48:14] me um I'd say just structure my thought
[48:18] process a lot
[48:20] better um and sometimes I mean I I'm
[48:23] just as guilty as anyone in terms of of
[48:26] short-term
[48:28] thinking and have you thought of
[48:31] this you know is is a very very powerful
[48:37] question when asked at the right
[48:40] time you know and um coaching is going
[48:44] to help you
[48:45] there and I think to to add you since
[48:48] you asked two or
[48:51] three I will say the the coaches excuse
[48:54] me um spec coaches and even all of
[48:58] us who can
[49:01] really harness technology the best way
[49:05] will be the ones that
[49:08] succeed there's a there's a bit of a
[49:11] rush to use technology for technology
[49:14] sake and not to solve a
[49:17] problem and those that are using
[49:20] technology to solve a problem will do
[49:23] better than those who are just using it
[49:25] to show investors
[49:28] 100% that's something I've been really
[49:30] passionate about because I'm I head up
[49:33] the accounting and finance me rooll for
[49:36] the AI deals desk but at Google Cloud
[49:39] but I've been well how do how did
[49:41] practically do you apply it and it's
[49:43] very fascinating there's not a lot of
[49:45] guidance for people on what are Best
[49:47] Practices to apply to improve our
[49:48] day-to-day life and there are tools like
[49:51] you can we could record this transcript
[49:54] and play it back and ask you know ni
[49:57] hey are there things we could have
[49:58] talked about that were more interesting
[49:59] or are there ways that where do we
[50:01] connect and how can we Foster this
[50:03] relationship more or what are good
[50:05] collab there's ways that people aren't
[50:07] exploring practical application to
[50:09] actually be beneficial and add value and
[50:11] so um AB fascinating I mean my my
[50:13] favorite anecdote for technology and
[50:17] where technology
[50:18] helps is um he I mean I'm I'm old enough
[50:23] to remember a time when we said well if
[50:27] computers ever beat humans at
[50:29] chess that's the end of humanity right
[50:34] um and lo and behold a computer beat the
[50:37] best chess player
[50:40] ever and right now the quality of Chess
[50:44] is better than it ever
[50:45] was because those who
[50:48] can leverage
[50:52] technology do better
[50:55] so I I I'm not a AI doomsayer or
[50:58] whatever to say that AI is going to take
[51:00] away all your jobs I think there's just
[51:03] as much use for all of it for us that we
[51:06] can make value of of it it's just like
[51:09] email right it was 20 years ago email
[51:11] was get it it's just a new it's a new
[51:13] thing I po than hey I want to respect
[51:15] your time and I feel like I can talk to
[51:17] another for few hours I can go a little
[51:19] further if if your time is okay let me
[51:22] just switch on this slide because it's
[51:23] getting a little dark in here no I
[51:25] appreciate I know you you're a dad dad
[51:26] and a husband too and so being a dad and
[51:29] husband too I know the importance of
[51:31] wrapping up on time but maybe we could
[51:32] continue the conversation another time
[51:34] I'm really enjoying this and I hope you
[51:36] are too I'm just curious I want
[51:38] takeaways for you here what is a
[51:40] professional opportunity or
[51:41] collaboration in 2025 that you're
[51:44] looking forward to or that you're trying
[51:45] to start uh for me definitely coaching I
[51:49] mean coming back into that same thing
[51:51] like I said um I made a conscious
[51:54] decision to have both both my job and my
[51:57] coaching as part of my my
[52:00] narrative um so how do I balance
[52:04] that is my big
[52:08] Lookout um I would I would love to say
[52:12] that you know this is I'm I'm a great
[52:16] coach um but I'm learning uh every day
[52:19] every every person that I get to coach I
[52:22] learn something from them um so I'm not
[52:26] in the business of saying that you know
[52:28] hey you
[52:30] um you know I I I only do career
[52:33] coaching or only leadership coaching or
[52:35] etc etc I'm I'm I'm just a coach right
[52:39] um so for
[52:40] me it's I'll just say getting my
[52:45] coaching muscle to some level of
[52:48] sustainability is my big goal for
[52:52] 2025 yeah that's admirable you already
[52:54] sound so amazing but I can see that
[52:55] continuous learning that drive to be an
[52:57] expert um I can see why you got into
[52:59] Stanford so uh how can how can me or my
[53:03] audience best support you in your goals
[53:05] for this year or how can we engage with
[53:07] your work well so I started um so I kind
[53:11] of have a organization that I started
[53:14] called as the kachua
[53:16] collective uh what's that so the the
[53:21] kachua is uh the Hindi word for toris
[53:27] and um if you've heard of the story of
[53:29] the hair and the
[53:31] toris um you know we slow and steady
[53:35] wins the race because you probably heard
[53:37] it in the US I heard it in India but in
[53:40] both versions it was the toris that won
[53:41] the race right um so um slow and steady
[53:47] um step by step ferociously is what kind
[53:50] of the motto of uh the organization that
[53:52] I'm setting up and yeah I mean just come
[53:57] to the website um I'm trying to also
[53:59] establish a substack that I hope um has
[54:02] some news has some subscribers it's all
[54:05] on it's all there on the website um and
[54:09] just reach out you know there's LinkedIn
[54:11] there's um so many things that I mean I
[54:16] also believe that if you Google my name
[54:18] I'm the only person who that's the hit
[54:21] so um oh good Google my name you might
[54:25] just find chak by itself so um yeah
[54:29] that's um that's how you can get a hold
[54:32] of me I'm fairly easy to get hold of and
[54:34] like I said I'm I like to say I'm
[54:36] approachable so I love that and we'll
[54:39] put all the links in the video
[54:40] descriptions and all the everything
[54:42] there of course um and I love that step
[54:44] by step ferociously I've never heard
[54:46] that before but I think that's really
[54:47] powerful I will not take credit for it
[54:50] um Jeff
[54:52] Bezos uh has this as a
[54:56] he has the Latin version of this for
[54:58] blue origin called graim
[55:01] feros and I just said that's too high
[55:05] tech for me I'll just go with English so
[55:07] I like it I love it I heard another a
[55:09] similar saying someone else told me
[55:10] today was like being aggressively
[55:12] patient I thought was an interesting
[55:14] thought too uh an interesting I think
[55:16] it's really powerful people are moving a
[55:18] little too fast and the Tortoise does
[55:20] win at the end and know all in all
[55:22] dialogues and stories um what can where
[55:25] okay we already talked about where
[55:26] people can connect with you I'll add
[55:28] those here last challenge for you before
[55:31] we'll turn off I'm going to give you
[55:33] imagine you on a
[55:34] Podium and you have 15 to 30 seconds
[55:38] just to give the most powerful message
[55:40] you can to the audience so just some
[55:43] words of encouragement are a big
[55:46] takeaway about either navigating career
[55:48] growth a leadership transition or just
[55:52] what you think resonates with this could
[55:53] you could you share that um so I'll just
[55:57] use uh this is something that I have on
[56:00] on a on my wall at work uh is a quote
[56:04] from Samuel
[56:05] Becket uh which is um ever tried ever
[56:09] failed no matter try again fail again
[56:14] fail
[56:16] better so keep trying you have to keep
[56:19] doing what you're doing just fail at
[56:22] failing and you'll be
[56:24] fine I love that that is a perfect way
[56:27] to close this thank you so much sh I
[56:28] really appreciate it I'll stop the
[56:30] recording now thank you