YouTube transcript
Video ID: _bSldexX2p4
Language: en
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[0:00] 95 to 98% of your success is driven by
[0:03] the way you think. You could actually
[0:04] practice the thoughts that you're going
[0:06] to think and they could be positive.
[0:08] Money was my master. It controlled
[0:09] everything I did. It was my gatekeeper.
[0:11] They're multi-millionaires.
[0:13] Everything's going for them. All
[0:14] graduated from the best schools, have
[0:16] ideal lives, and great jobs that
[0:18] actually aren't putting a lot of
[0:19] pressure on them, but their mindset is
[0:21] so off because it's all like the
[0:22] toxicity of the culture. Money is my
[0:25] servant is now my new tagline and money
[0:28] is an enabler and an amplifier to what I
[0:31] want to do and it's going to easily find
[0:33] me and it's always going to be there for
[0:36] me. Hey everyone, how's it going?
[0:38] Welcome to Ambition Aligned. Today's
[0:40] guest is my friend Kelsey, a top
[0:41] performing tech seller with experience
[0:43] at great firms like Deote, Goldman
[0:45] Sachs, and high growth startups. After
[0:47] hitting burnout, she rewired not just
[0:49] her schedule, but her whole mindset.
[0:51] Now, she helps other high achievers do
[0:53] the same. If you ever find yourself tied
[0:56] to the value of your work or wonder how
[0:58] to thrive without burning out, this
[1:00] episode's for you. Let's dive in.
[1:03] You are both a very high functioning,
[1:07] highintensity professional working jobs
[1:10] from Deote Consulting, Goldman Sachs,
[1:13] and now tech sales. But you're also
[1:16] prioritize your family and you have this
[1:18] brand a really brand and a lot of u
[1:21] written materials around how you can do
[1:23] both and I'd love to pick your brain on
[1:27] how are you finding the balance so many
[1:28] people right now are struggling with
[1:30] work life balance especially in Silicon
[1:32] Valley it's been really really tough on
[1:34] a lot of people as companies make cuts
[1:36] and return to office and all of that
[1:38] what what's your secret what are you
[1:39] what are you doing different than
[1:41] everyone else yeah I mean it's a it's a
[1:43] million-dollar question right Devin Um,
[1:45] but I mean I think like like you
[1:47] mentioned, we're in this really
[1:48] interesting phase of I think history
[1:52] where we're at this inflection point
[1:54] where everyone is feeling this like
[1:56] overwhelming
[1:58] uh performance burnout. At least that's
[2:00] what coming from my background of like
[2:02] always working at these massive
[2:03] corporations, have always been a high
[2:05] achieving professional. Um, and kind of
[2:08] the output has been like a lot of
[2:10] pressure to be able to perform under
[2:12] that. And so I think we're at this
[2:13] interesting inflection point of like
[2:15] we've got a lot of talent in the market
[2:17] that is struggling to figure out how
[2:20] it's going to be sustainable especially
[2:22] as they go into things like parenthood
[2:24] or balancing family um and also just
[2:26] like still achieving but not feeling
[2:28] like they are going underwater. Um
[2:31] personally for me Devon like that has
[2:33] been a story I've experienced. I
[2:35] experienced burnout uh early on in my
[2:38] career, several times throughout uh my
[2:40] time in consulting as well and even in
[2:42] tech sales. There's a lot of uh pressure
[2:45] from burnout. And I think that what's
[2:47] shifted everything for me, if I can boil
[2:50] it down to like one main thing, the
[2:52] thing that has shifted me out of that
[2:54] like burnout, how am I managing all of
[2:56] this to like a more balanced fulfilling
[2:59] career and lifestyle has been changing
[3:01] how I think. Um, I'm in tech sales now
[3:05] and I, uh, I have a saying that the
[3:07] hardest territory that anyone ever has
[3:09] to manage now is the the two between
[3:11] your ears, which is your brain, right?
[3:13] So, um, that's really what started to
[3:16] shift everything for me is how I started
[3:18] to think about my reality, my goals, my
[3:21] dreams, and that has actually lended
[3:23] itself to really healthy balance um, in
[3:27] terms of what I'm able to work and
[3:28] achieve. So, it's been it's been
[3:31] everything, but it's been up here as
[3:33] well. Okay, I pause you there for a
[3:34] second because I think that's always an
[3:36] interesting challenge to me because so
[3:38] many people think
[3:40] reactively, right? Like, yes. I I know a
[3:43] lot of people are like, you can't
[3:45] control your thoughts. They're just
[3:46] things that pop up, right? And so, what
[3:49] do you how do you do that? What do you
[3:50] what do you even talk like? How do you
[3:51] go and actually change that inner
[3:54] dialogue or what are some secrets you
[3:56] have there? Because that I agree. I
[3:57] agree. And that's what the best athletes
[3:59] in the world all say is they have like
[4:00] their inner game, their inner talk and
[4:02] that positivity. But it is how can we do
[4:05] that? How how do you apply that? Yeah.
[4:08] Yeah. I mean it's such a great question
[4:10] because it really is like a rewiring
[4:12] effort of sorts, right? So like and it
[4:15] all goes back to how everyone's like
[4:17] like you said, right? Like it's just how
[4:19] I think. This is how so many people are
[4:21] wired. They think that they were born a
[4:23] certain way. It's just what they saw
[4:25] growing up. It's who they are. And so
[4:28] they assume that the default way that
[4:29] they're thinking is just how they have
[4:32] to live. Right? There was um a time in
[4:35] my life in the last two years where I
[4:37] met a mentor of mine and she she told me
[4:41] a statistic that said 95 to 98% of your
[4:45] success is driven by the way you think.
[4:47] And I was like no way. Like you know we
[4:50] come from these backgrounds where like
[4:51] it's about the drive, it's about the
[4:53] accomplishment. It's about the strategy,
[4:54] the tactic. like if we can figure that
[4:56] out you will be successful right but
[4:58] when she started to say that so many
[5:01] people aren't aware of the power of
[5:03] their mind that's when things started to
[5:05] shift for me so I do think that um you
[5:09] know today a lot of people aren't even
[5:11] aware that you can change the way that
[5:13] your brain is wired and it's a process
[5:16] right like there I went through a really
[5:17] long journey on how to kind of evaluate
[5:20] first is like one how are you thinking
[5:22] today like you have to get to know
[5:24] yourself and understand the wiring and
[5:27] the old beliefs that you are operating
[5:29] on. You might not even be consciously
[5:31] aware of them. Most of us are not. And
[5:33] then you have to figure out how you get
[5:35] there. Um so it's a whole process. But I
[5:37] would say that like one if you are
[5:40] looking to figure out like okay this is
[5:42] interesting tell me more. I would start
[5:44] by like documenting how do you think you
[5:47] think about your sales process today?
[5:49] How do you think about clients that come
[5:51] and work with you? How do you think
[5:52] about like your own success? Is it hard
[5:54] to get? Is it easy for you to stumble
[5:56] into success? Like what is the story and
[5:59] the narrative you've told yourself up to
[6:01] this point? It's very fascinating when
[6:04] you start to think of it from that
[6:05] angle. Yeah, there's a there's a man
[6:07] there's a lot there to unpack and there
[6:10] was a book I read recent a while ago
[6:12] called like winning the war in your
[6:13] mind. But it is Yeah. So something I'll
[6:16] share if you haven't um but it's such a
[6:19] challenge for all of us. You read it in
[6:21] finance literature about, you know,
[6:22] people who have scarcity mindsets or
[6:24] they spend too much. And it all goes has
[6:26] nothing to do with actually
[6:28] understanding finances. It all goes down
[6:30] to the patterns and the habits that
[6:31] they've developed. And so I guess I want
[6:36] to go into the science of all that, but
[6:37] how do how do you go from doing high
[6:40] tech to like what's the moment? How what
[6:42] how do you go from doing high tech to
[6:45] suddenly going into like psychiatry and
[6:48] neuroscience to figure out how to rewire
[6:51] your own brain and start teaching others
[6:52] to do that as well. That's a huge
[6:55] change. Yeah, it is. And it's a huge
[6:57] change. The change really comes from
[6:59] like the purpose behind why I wanted to
[7:01] change. So, I know you're a parent, too,
[7:03] right Devon? Like I became a mom to um I
[7:06] almost have a 2-year-old now. became a
[7:08] became a mom and really what what pushed
[7:11] everyone has like a reason. So people
[7:12] change for like two reasons usually pain
[7:14] or desire. Uh most people change out of
[7:17] pain. Uh this was actually a moment that
[7:20] was kind of mixed with pain that I knew
[7:23] I was like struggling with burnout and
[7:25] anxiety and um tying my worthiness to my
[7:28] results as a seller. And then when I
[7:30] became a mom, I wanted to shift into
[7:33] this woman that didn't show that showed
[7:37] her a woman that had a career that
[7:40] wasn't like so concerned about where she
[7:42] stood on the leaderboard or how her
[7:45] results looked like she was a worthy
[7:47] enough human being to be her mom
[7:49] regardless of any of the external
[7:50] factors. So when I wanted to make that
[7:53] change for my daughter first of off and
[7:56] for me second, I said I want to figure
[7:59] out what's going on up here because I
[8:01] had I was aware when I had struggled
[8:04] with burnout at Goldman Sachs early on
[8:06] in my career. I was aware of the fact
[8:08] that like your brain drives everything.
[8:12] So how you feel drives how you act and
[8:14] how you emotionalize everything else in
[8:15] your world. So when I wanted to make
[8:17] this shift, it was about understanding,
[8:20] okay, how do I go about rewiring the
[8:22] brain? Cuz I too had thought like, well,
[8:24] I come from anx like an anxious family.
[8:26] It's just who I am. I'm just going to be
[8:27] an anxious person forever. And that is
[8:30] just a story. It's just a story that we
[8:33] tell ourselves in the brain through
[8:35] studies of neuroplasticity. You can
[8:37] actually shift the way and build new
[8:39] neuroconivity pathways in your mind. And
[8:43] everyone used to think that you couldn't
[8:45] do that past like your, you know, your
[8:47] adulthood years. So like once you got
[8:48] into like 25 years of age or or past, it
[8:51] was just hardwired. Good luck change and
[8:53] it's who you were. That is not the case.
[8:56] And studies have shown and there's a
[8:57] huge um emerging market, not emerging
[9:00] market, there goes my tech speak. It's a
[9:03] huge emerging science field that is
[9:05] studying the neuroplasticity of your
[9:07] brain. And so you can actually change
[9:10] the way you feel and operate that
[9:12] deviates from this this old wiring that
[9:14] you may have been working with for like
[9:16] I don't know years and years of your
[9:18] life. So it really started by like one
[9:21] understanding that this mindset thing
[9:23] it's not woo woo shoo although there is
[9:25] some like there's some woo woo element
[9:27] to it where like you know the power of
[9:29] your mind does shift like what you see
[9:31] in your reality but it's backed by
[9:32] science. This is not like Kelsey just
[9:35] figured out this is some manifestation
[9:36] process. This was like actually backed
[9:39] by the idea that if I was intentional
[9:41] about shifting how I thought, it could
[9:44] form permanent patterns in my brain and
[9:46] I could actually start to become a
[9:48] totally different woman that has this
[9:50] perfect balance of career and family.
[9:55] How do you do it? I mean, that's all
[9:56] amazing. How do you do it? What? Give me
[9:58] an example. Can you can you walk me
[9:59] through maybe a something you were
[10:01] struggling with? Yes. And then how did
[10:04] you change it? And do you still
[10:06] struggle? Like kind of go walk me
[10:08] through the whole process of what
[10:09] happened, the triggering point, how you
[10:11] fix it. I'm sure everyone would be
[10:12] fascinated. Yeah. Okay. So, let's give
[10:15] like a really common example that I
[10:17] think more people out here might
[10:19] resonate with this one than we imagine,
[10:21] but let's talk about like a story about
[10:24] money. So, one of the other things I
[10:26] love talking about is money. I know
[10:28] you're, you know, a deal. You you
[10:30] understand the finance element to how we
[10:33] operate, right?
[10:35] When I was before I made this
[10:37] transformation, the way I thought about
[10:39] money was that it was very scarce, hard
[10:42] to get, hard to come by. Uh it could run
[10:46] away really quickly. And if I didn't
[10:48] have like an enormous amount of savings,
[10:49] like I'd put my entire family at risk,
[10:51] and it was very much like money was my
[10:53] master. If I had a tagline for my
[10:55] relationship with money before this,
[10:57] money was my master. It controlled
[10:58] everything I did. It was my gatekeeper.
[11:01] I did not like that feeling. The feeling
[11:04] of um waiting on some sort of money gift
[11:10] or status symbol before I went and acted
[11:12] out on my dreams of like doing podcasts
[11:14] like this or you know serving serving
[11:17] other women in this space of like
[11:19] working through tech sales and
[11:20] motherhood. I would give money like a a
[11:23] pretty much it put it on a pedestal,
[11:25] right? So the old thought was money was
[11:27] the master and the new thought. So I
[11:29] always like draw a T-chart. I say here's
[11:30] my old thought and my old beliefs that I
[11:32] maybe was raised with, grew up with,
[11:34] whatever it is. This is the old thought.
[11:37] This made me behave in such ways where
[11:39] it would stop me from following my
[11:41] dreams, stop me from doing the outreach,
[11:43] stop me from creating things that I
[11:45] wanted to talk about. And what is the
[11:47] new thought? How about we switch it?
[11:49] Usually it's like the opposite of the
[11:51] old beliefs. So like and I'm going to
[11:53] start to see that come through in my
[11:55] reality as well. So I would actually
[11:57] start like mapping out these old
[11:59] thoughts and then the new thoughts I
[12:01] wanted to replace them with and then I
[12:03] would start affirming that like through
[12:05] daily affirmations
[12:07] um through journaling like every single
[12:10] day to try to rewire the brain and and
[12:13] you kind of combine it with the activity
[12:15] of practicing to see it in your reality.
[12:18] Um, like if you found like if I found a
[12:20] quarter on the sidewalk, I was like,
[12:21] "Oh, see, money easily finds me." And
[12:23] you kind of like have to slowly rewire
[12:26] the brain, but the effort is
[12:27] understanding old, reforming a new
[12:30] thought, and then affirming it, and
[12:32] watching it come into reality more and
[12:34] more. That's kind of the whole premise
[12:36] of it. Yeah, I got to attest to it.
[12:39] something that sounds so strange, but
[12:40] it's I I do it and it's always had the
[12:42] most transformation, like the biggest
[12:44] transformation on my own life is reading
[12:46] out loud affirmations. And it seems
[12:48] strange and I remember like it will look
[12:50] really weird if you see my in my car
[12:52] before I pick up on a big project. So,
[12:54] I'll read a list of things like I'm here
[12:56] to serve others or changing my mindset
[12:59] that I intentionally and you'll find
[13:01] that it then picks it up. If you
[13:02] practice it a hundred times, then it'll
[13:04] then it'll happen. Your mind will pick
[13:06] it up. It's like practice. Well, you
[13:08] could actually practice the thoughts
[13:09] that you're going to think and they
[13:10] could be positive and like for me one of
[13:12] the big things after I talk to someone I
[13:14] always say like what a great person or
[13:16] like that what a gift and that way it
[13:18] makes me excited to talk that's changed
[13:20] my way from when I want to approach with
[13:21] people. So um so yeah so that's a really
[13:24] practical tool. How long did it take do
[13:26] for you? How long does it take you or
[13:28] others you think to pick that up?
[13:30] I would say like in this in relative to
[13:33] time, it was very quick. Like I I would
[13:36] say the money the money traumas that I
[13:38] had are virtually resolved now. I still
[13:42] like I'm still a human, but I would say
[13:44] roughly when I started to implement the
[13:47] rewiring process and affirm it and then
[13:50] keep affirming it and practicing it
[13:51] every day, the whole process probably
[13:53] took less than 6 months. I'd say I got
[13:56] really tangible results in like three
[13:59] months of practicing it. Um, but it it
[14:02] does work. It absolutely works because
[14:04] you subconsciously your brain can't
[14:06] process like more than one thought. So
[14:09] like like how you just said like, "Oh,
[14:10] they're such a great person or they're
[14:12] such a nice person." When you give
[14:14] yourself an affirmation or a phrase to
[14:16] process, it has your subconscious mind
[14:19] can only think in that lens. It cannot.
[14:22] So that's why words are so incredibly
[14:24] powerful and what you're telling
[14:26] yourself is so incredibly powerful that
[14:29] I started to audit everything I was
[14:32] saying even in my own mind without
[14:34] speaking out loud like I have to you I
[14:36] started to really govern what was coming
[14:38] out of my mouth because I started to see
[14:40] that that would literally reflect in my
[14:42] reality. So if I only hold my team in
[14:45] high in the highest regard, assume they
[14:47] always have the best intentions and
[14:49] assume they're always trying their best.
[14:52] You just start to see that because
[14:53] that's like how your subconscious is
[14:55] viewing the external world. So it is
[14:58] really a powerful way to start to shift.
[15:01] If you're like experiencing anything in
[15:02] your reality right now where you're
[15:03] like, "This sucks. I don't understand um
[15:07] how this can get better to me for me."
[15:10] Try feeding a different narrative to the
[15:11] story and you'll start to see like that
[15:14] different things start to shift. It's
[15:15] it's it almost feels like magic. It
[15:18] almost feels like magic, but you've
[15:20] experienced it, right? Like it's cool
[15:22] that someone else is talking about it
[15:23] because it's a weird little It's a
[15:25] niched kind of thing that a a lot I know
[15:28] a lot of people do. a lot of high
[15:29] performers I've met do to optimize their
[15:31] time and optimize their mindset. But it
[15:33] just sounds like if you thought the one
[15:35] doing it, it looks weird and it sounds
[15:38] strange that you have to and the
[15:40] practice is really interesting, right?
[15:42] like you have to at least be self-aware
[15:44] enough to know what you're thinking and
[15:46] a lot of the times that can even look a
[15:48] little crazy like for me for what I
[15:50] found like talking about a for a second
[15:52] what I found useful for chatbt or other
[15:54] tools like that is just do stream of
[15:56] consciousness or if you don't have that
[15:57] like a coach is way better right of just
[16:00] like here's everything on my mind and
[16:02] then you can start seeing like trends
[16:05] you could be like oh I'm really actually
[16:07] keep being worried about money and then
[16:09] you can make the step of what would I
[16:11] rather Is it a real fear or is it a fake
[16:13] fear? And then how can I change that and
[16:16] then make an affirmation against a fear?
[16:18] But that's that's work. It's a lot of
[16:19] selfwork. You don't like you don't do
[16:20] that randomly overnight and wake up and
[16:23] suddenly oh I should be saying this
[16:24] instead, right? Yeah. You really have to
[16:26] do the selfwork there. Yeah. You have to
[16:28] do the selfwork and you have to know
[16:30] why, right? Like when you became a dad,
[16:32] there were probably things that like you
[16:34] were like, I got to clean this up or I
[16:36] want to start thinking about this in a
[16:38] different way. Usually it you have to
[16:40] have some some sort of reason that you
[16:42] want to change. I find that is like
[16:45] before doing the affirmations and
[16:46] practicing everything like you got to
[16:48] anchor into your why like why is it
[16:50] meaningful for you to try to shift right
[16:53] and that's why it comes back to like is
[16:54] it from pain or is it from a desire but
[16:57] either way like your mind is so
[16:59] radically powerful that you can make it
[17:02] but you got to come back to like is it
[17:04] is it meaningful to you? Because if it's
[17:06] meaningful, like it's absolutely
[17:07] possible to to start making those
[17:09] shifts. For sure.
[17:13] Yeah. So, what
[17:16] have you helped other people through
[17:17] this? I know you write about this and
[17:19] you post around it, but what have you
[17:20] seen? Yeah. Like in practice you
[17:23] building up other people or other I know
[17:26] you've target a lot of moms, especially
[17:28] in sales as a very like what are you
[17:30] seeing people saying or are they
[17:32] actually picking up these practices?
[17:33] what's working for them. Yeah. I mean,
[17:36] it's been um I started going really
[17:39] public with this story of like how this
[17:41] had transformed for me about a year ago
[17:44] and um since then I have had the
[17:47] pleasure of meeting folks like you Devon
[17:48] and like across my entire network as
[17:50] well where other moms or parents um who
[17:54] have been like I want more time with my
[17:56] family. I also want to hit quota and
[17:58] like just feel secure in my career and
[18:01] as a family man or family woman. Um, how
[18:04] can you help kind of implement some of
[18:06] these mindset shifts? Because the the
[18:08] challenge in the tech sale world, Devon,
[18:10] is that every bit of training is so
[18:14] focused on strategy. It's so focused on
[18:16] tactics. It's so focused on like the how
[18:19] of it. And it's so rarely do we get
[18:22] people talking about the mindset piece.
[18:24] But like, as you know, it's all it's now
[18:27] what I know is that mindset is really
[18:29] the majority of it. And you've got to
[18:31] get your mind right. So, what I've heard
[18:33] from the community of other sellers and
[18:35] parents who are selling is that they
[18:37] absolutely are struggling with this.
[18:39] It's a it's like you get your worthiness
[18:41] tied up and your quota and your numbers
[18:43] and like are you at the best tech
[18:44] company? If you're not the best tech
[18:46] company, are you even worthy? Are you
[18:47] even good enough? Like they everyone
[18:49] gets wrapped around the axle around all
[18:51] these external factors. And um what
[18:54] happens is that like when something goes
[18:56] wrong or when you don't have a great
[18:58] year, you find yourself like sometimes
[19:00] in a depressive state like you're
[19:02] actually in depression, you struggle
[19:03] with alcoholism or other kind of like
[19:06] numbing,
[19:08] you know, bad habits that you just like
[19:09] you're not able to cope with. So what's
[19:11] happened is a lot of people have reached
[19:13] out through this story and just said
[19:15] like how can you actually start to shift
[19:17] the mindset so we don't create coping
[19:19] mechanisms, we're actually solving from
[19:20] within. So, it's all been about like
[19:23] what are the affirmations that have you
[19:24] you've used? How do you use
[19:26] visualization as a tool to like get
[19:29] yourself out of a negative spiral? You
[19:30] know those negative spirals where you're
[19:32] like you're doom spiraling. Like how do
[19:34] you get out of that and shift forward
[19:36] into something that's more productive?
[19:38] And how do you like sustain that
[19:39] practice? So through meditations and
[19:42] affirmations and all of that good stuff
[19:44] is now a part of my practice like
[19:46] weekly. daily. I try to be like daily,
[19:49] but it's a weekly thing now. Um, and so
[19:52] it's been really cool to kind of help
[19:54] like other people that are in my shoes
[19:56] in the tech sales space to kind of go
[19:57] through that process and see that
[19:59] they're also getting some relief, some
[20:01] relief from like the the burnout and the
[20:04] struggle that a lot of tech sellers
[20:06] experience. So you call it something
[20:08] really something that strikes me is it's
[20:11] really tough especially in the Bay Area
[20:13] but I know in a lot of highly
[20:14] competitive areas that money is such a
[20:18] focus and title is such a focus and you
[20:21] said something very interesting earlier
[20:23] about how you watch what you say and if
[20:25] I was to infer that I'm guessing you
[20:27] also watch watch what you input because
[20:30] I find I'll do no tech days or or no
[20:32] tech half days. I really try not to use
[20:34] my phone for half a day and my mind will
[20:36] be completely different than if I have
[20:38] my phone because I check my phone. Let's
[20:40] say let's be realistic. Everyone checks
[20:42] their phone every like 10 seconds,
[20:43] right? You're always fiddling with your
[20:44] phone. Um, and I realized like in the
[20:48] culture, especially in competitive tech,
[20:50] tech tech, the competitive tech world,
[20:52] you could be in a really positive
[20:53] environment, but because we're all
[20:55] talking about numbers and competition
[20:58] and and kind of doomsday. If we don't do
[21:00] this, then we're going to be second
[21:02] best, not first. We're not the number
[21:04] one. People can get really negative and
[21:07] have these I've met people who have
[21:08] crippling addictions, um, alcoholism,
[21:12] divorces, and everything else on like
[21:14] they're multi-millionaires.
[21:16] Everything is going for them, all
[21:18] graduated from the best schools, have
[21:19] ideal lives, and great jobs that
[21:21] actually aren't putting a lot of
[21:22] pressure on them, but their mindset is
[21:24] so off because it's all like the
[21:26] toxicity of the culture. And so, I don't
[21:28] know, what what's your thoughts there?
[21:30] And how do you rebuff against that? Like
[21:31] you you have to have your mindset while
[21:34] still not getting like fed in by the
[21:36] world throughout the day. It's not the
[21:37] easiest thing, right? Yeah, it's
[21:39] definitely not easy. But that's a pro
[21:41] tip. No tech days for half a day. Is
[21:43] that what you do? You just set your
[21:45] phone aside. Okay. Now I'm going to
[21:48] steal that from you, Devon. Like that.
[21:50] Tell me tell me how it works for you.
[21:51] It's a It's a It's not as easy as you
[21:53] think. Yeah. Yeah. No joke. I'm thinking
[21:56] like could I step away from my phone for
[21:57] a half day? That feels crazy. Um because
[22:00] it does like I do think you're hitting
[22:02] on a really important point. We are so
[22:05] inundated with a high dopamine hit
[22:08] culture, right? You've got streaming
[22:10] everywhere. Even LinkedIn now is like
[22:12] totally shifting to almost like an
[22:15] Instagram Tik Tok style platform. And as
[22:18] a seller, LinkedIn is one of like my
[22:21] main platforms. I go there to look at
[22:23] account research, people research. Like
[22:25] I use it all the time. And what I had
[22:27] found before I started making the shift
[22:28] was I would get on to go look at
[22:31] someone, right, to do some research and
[22:33] scroll for 35 minutes just on the feed.
[22:36] Like I wouldn't even be aware of it. And
[22:38] then I'd be like, where did my hour go?
[22:40] So what happens is when you want to
[22:42] shift out and you start to become aware
[22:44] of the power of how you think and what
[22:46] you feed your brain as well is equally
[22:48] important. You start to become very um
[22:52] you do an audit on your life on what
[22:53] you're feeding. So, I've actually I'm
[22:56] off of Instagram. I'm off of Tik Tok.
[22:58] The only platform I'm on right now is
[23:00] LinkedIn. I create some YouTube videos
[23:03] on the side, but I have almost cut out
[23:06] all the news apps as well on my phone.
[23:09] It's pretty like rigorous, but let me
[23:11] explain why. Let me just give you an
[23:12] example. If you're in a selling role or
[23:15] if you're just like you're about to
[23:17] start your Monday morning, you flip on
[23:18] Wall Street Journal and you see a
[23:21] negative headline, you're immediately
[23:23] going to you'll feel your emotion pull
[23:25] down. You'll see things that just like
[23:27] get you discouraged like pending
[23:29] recession is coming, right? like market
[23:31] reacts
[23:33] down five points like you know you see
[23:35] that and that is going to carry forward
[23:38] in your day and what I wanted to stop
[23:40] happening was those external things
[23:43] coming into my life and just
[23:44] automatically shifting my energy whereas
[23:47] like I love right now that I sell from a
[23:50] place where I'm like I don't I don't
[23:52] feel impacted by recessions or what's
[23:55] going on in the market I feel like I can
[23:58] make success wherever I them and that my
[24:01] customers will find me and we will we
[24:04] will solve the problems that they have
[24:05] regardless of the conditions of the
[24:07] market. And that has been so freeing,
[24:10] but I've had to intentionally cut it out
[24:12] because if I kept feeding it to myself,
[24:14] like if we watch the news every night,
[24:16] you're fighting an uphill battle, Devon,
[24:18] you're never going to be able to dis
[24:20] disengage or unplug from it. You have to
[24:22] like like like a virus, you have to like
[24:25] take it out of your life because it can
[24:26] be very negatively toxic.
[24:29] Yeah. And I I see it with teams. I see
[24:33] it in families. Like if you have one
[24:37] person on a team and or you're
[24:38] especially if you're the leader of a
[24:39] team and you're in that reactive mode
[24:41] and always kind of negative, that's
[24:43] going to permeate across your team.
[24:44] Especially if you are that kind of
[24:46] person who's expecting to ping like a
[24:48] ping at 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. and have an
[24:50] answer right away because you're used to
[24:52] this reactive world. leaders have really
[24:54] got to watch watch out for that kind of
[24:56] activity because it's it's not natural
[24:58] like we need you need your space you and
[25:00] you and it's a misrepresentation that
[25:03] that's productivity because I know so
[25:05] many I know multi-billionaires who have
[25:09] work in 30 or 40 hour days right like
[25:12] they are highly productive in those 30
[25:14] or 40 hours and are deep experts in
[25:16] their fields they don't need to be
[25:18] available 100 hours a day and that all
[25:20] of these like Instagram and all these
[25:22] technologies
[25:23] are really capitalizing and get paid by
[25:26] commoditizing our time, right? And so
[25:28] it's a it's a great it's a great
[25:30] feedback and I'm glad you're taking that
[25:32] action. It's not easy, especially when
[25:33] you're trying to do what you're doing to
[25:34] disengage from the platforms, right? But
[25:37] it's been the most not only like
[25:40] effective shift in my job, Devon, but
[25:42] for my family. Like you're a parent, you
[25:44] guys, you go to the park, right? You see
[25:46] kids parents are just like glued to
[25:49] their phone, right? and they're a kid.
[25:51] Like the most heartbreaking thing is
[25:52] like you can't really blame the human
[25:54] sometimes because they are literally
[25:56] designed like these apps are designed by
[25:58] like the same slot machine gambling
[26:00] companies, right? They're highly
[26:02] addictive and they they hit like you're
[26:05] releasing dopamine every time you're
[26:06] hitting that. And it's sad. Like it's
[26:09] the if you if you're ever questioning
[26:10] like can I clean up my social media
[26:12] addictions? Like if anything, do it for
[26:14] your kids and your family because it
[26:16] breaks my heart to see parents that are
[26:19] scrolling on their phone at the park and
[26:21] their kids are like, "Hey, mommy, daddy,
[26:23] like look at me." And they can't even
[26:25] pull they can't even pull away from
[26:26] their phone. So like that was one of the
[26:29] things like I did not want my daughter
[26:31] to see me staring at my phone or be on
[26:33] my phone every single hour of the day
[26:35] because I'm addicted to responding and
[26:37] I'm addicted to a reactive culture. You
[26:40] can get things done in less amount of
[26:42] time if you're rigorously focused and
[26:44] doing the right things. It's not about
[26:46] feeling busy. It's about getting the
[26:47] things done that move the needle to your
[26:49] business or to your job. And then you
[26:51] have to unplug. That's so important.
[26:53] It's all about the longevity of like the
[26:55] health of your family and you as well.
[26:58] Yeah. Yeah. And that's a tough thing to
[26:59] talk to people about because it is an
[27:01] addiction, right? It is. It's a real
[27:03] addiction. And I like Yeah. I know a lot
[27:05] of people like, "Hey, do you think you
[27:06] use your phone too much?" Like, "Do not
[27:08] talk about my phone." you like I will
[27:09] kill you instead of you know that is a
[27:13] very sensitive and so I wonder um and I
[27:16] find it hard for myself it's something I
[27:17] know and then I'll grapple with it if I
[27:18] have I'll intentionally not take my
[27:20] phone to the park and be worried be like
[27:22] what if something goes wrong nothing's
[27:24] ever gone wrong I've never needed my
[27:25] phone but that it's not a natural state
[27:28] and I I had my phone actually break like
[27:30] a a month or two ago and I'm like what
[27:33] would it be like if I just didn't use it
[27:34] for a week just didn't like the screen
[27:36] broke but it' still call and it was like
[27:38] my anxiet Y and my health levels
[27:40] instantly improve and so Yes. Yes. Yeah.
[27:43] I I So, how do you incorporate that in
[27:45] your coaching? Like, how do you how
[27:47] could you tell someone that without them
[27:48] getting super defensive?
[27:52] Yeah, I know. It is. It's funny. People
[27:54] like they take it as a personal attack
[27:56] and um and and you just I come from a
[27:58] place where I understand the empathy of
[28:00] it. Like I myself, trust me, we've all
[28:03] doom scrolled. We've all gotten on the
[28:04] phone and been like, "Whoa, where did
[28:05] that two hours go?" Right? Like I I
[28:08] totally get it. What I would say though
[28:10] is where where I have found a lot of my
[28:15] conversations have gone is not is saying
[28:18] what is it that you're trying to do? So
[28:20] like for example for me I I have worked
[28:23] 50 60 70 hour weeks a lot in my career
[28:27] and I did not do not want to do that
[28:30] anymore. One, I think with like the
[28:32] advances of AI, like I really would be
[28:34] questioning why anyone needs to work
[28:36] like 50hour weeks. I mean, there's so
[28:39] much efficiency that we're seeing come
[28:41] through with chat GPT and other AI
[28:43] tools. So, like that's a side note. But
[28:46] more importantly, like I try to tell
[28:48] people when they get defensive about
[28:49] like what would happen if you stopped
[28:51] looking at Wall Street Journal every
[28:53] single morning before you started your
[28:55] your work. Um, what could you get in
[28:58] return of that? cuz it's always a
[29:00] trade-off, right? It's an opportunity
[29:02] cost even with your time. So, if you
[29:04] want to sink your time in, I remember
[29:05] when I was on Instagram, I would like
[29:07] get on and I would feel like an anxiety
[29:10] paying to be like, what am I going to
[29:12] see that could trigger me from my
[29:14] friends or my family or whatever it was?
[29:16] And I just was like, I hate that. I I
[29:19] was almost like feeling sick to get on,
[29:22] but I was addicted to feeling sick about
[29:24] it. And when I finally cut it out, I had
[29:27] so much more time to be present with my
[29:29] kid, present with my husband. I wasn't
[29:32] feeling anxious at the start of my
[29:34] morning. And I got addicted to that
[29:37] feeling more than this like this doom
[29:40] loop. So it's like, yes, is it hard? And
[29:43] people get defensive. Yes. But and what
[29:46] would it look like if you had that time
[29:48] back? Like you said, your phone broke.
[29:50] What would you do with all that time if
[29:52] you didn't have your phone for a week?
[29:54] Like imagine that. It's fascinating,
[29:56] right? It's like most people can't do
[29:57] it. I haven't been able to go without my
[29:59] phone for a week, but I would be curious
[30:01] to see what would happen if I didn't
[30:03] have a mobile device tied to me for a
[30:05] whole week. Well, yeah, it's a trip to
[30:07] It's just such a trip because, you know,
[30:08] at least drugs, you get something fun
[30:10] out of it, you know, like at least
[30:11] you're having a good time having a drink
[30:13] or something, you know? But that phone,
[30:14] like you said, like a lot of times I go
[30:16] on, I'm like, "Ah crap, I got to do this
[30:18] this again." Yeah. But you're so
[30:19] addicted. And yeah, maybe that's a good
[30:22] challenge for people is what what would
[30:24] it be like if you just didn't have that
[30:25] because we didn't have it 20 years ago
[30:27] like we we were all not using any of it
[30:30] and quite frankly more present and more
[30:33] available and it's even made like I'm
[30:35] sure you've seen it like networking
[30:36] quite strange like most people have most
[30:38] people use LinkedIn for networking now
[30:40] like do does someone want to get a cup
[30:42] of coffee people it's tough sales people
[30:44] like you you get that um in person
[30:46] matters still like LinkedIn is great but
[30:48] you still got to show up in % um it
[30:51] does. So what what's next for you then?
[30:54] This is a really interesting
[30:55] cross-section. What are you what are you
[30:57] hoping to accomplish with that's that's
[30:59] why I reached out to you in the first
[31:00] place? You're writing all these great
[31:01] great all this great content really
[31:03] aligning people with their values and
[31:06] rethinking some of the unconscious
[31:08] unhealthy habits we have. What what are
[31:09] you hoping to accomplish from all this?
[31:11] I mean I think just more more of it,
[31:14] right? Like I think that it's something
[31:16] like you said it's it's out there and
[31:19] some people are like subconsciously
[31:20] aware of what they're doing with their
[31:22] mind or aware of these habits that might
[31:24] be siphoning off precious time with
[31:26] their kids or their family. But I don't
[31:28] think it's talked about enough. So I
[31:31] feel like my life's mission is to to
[31:33] continue to elevate this conversation
[31:35] and help people understand that there is
[31:38] a different way that you get to work and
[31:40] you get to think. It's not something
[31:42] that your parents gave to you and you're
[31:44] stuck with forever. You can change who
[31:47] you are, how you think, how you operate.
[31:49] Um, the power is in your hands. And I'm
[31:53] passionate about continuing to talk
[31:54] about that. Um, and continuing to be a
[31:57] top-notch seller um, in the tech space.
[32:00] Like, that's still what I love to do. I
[32:01] still love helping customers solve
[32:03] challenges and in the digital
[32:05] modernization space. So, like that's
[32:07] what I like to do, but I love talking
[32:09] about this mindset stuff. Everyone,
[32:11] unfortunately, we had technological
[32:13] difficulties here, so we had to cut the
[32:15] episode out early. I still want to thank
[32:16] Kelsey for the incredible conversation,
[32:18] and I still hope you found this episode
[32:20] extremely valuable, for your way of
[32:23] thinking about your mindset around work,
[32:25] parenthood, and if you found it
[32:27] valuable, please do me a favor and share
[32:29] it with someone. And uh if well, maybe
[32:31] we'll bring it back on. Um, have a great
[32:33] day. Thanks. Bye.