YouTube transcript
Video ID: KmRlPIaAEnk
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] no matter where you are right now if
[0:02] situation seem dire if you seem like
[0:06] stuck there is always always Way Forward
[0:10] and there are always opportunities the
[0:12] handcuffs get bigger over the years
[0:14] right you get paid more you get
[0:16] Equity it's really you have more to lose
[0:19] so figuring out what is right for you
[0:21] what do you need what do you want I want
[0:24] to encourage you to adopt an abundance
[0:28] mindset and always pleas ask yourself
[0:31] where are the
[0:32] opportunities and you'll find them today
[0:35] I'm going to be working with Lam more
[0:37] who is an executive coach mentor and
[0:39] leadership development expert
[0:41] specializing in helping women in
[0:42] engineering and Tech advance in
[0:44] leadership roles she has this amazing
[0:46] background at software engineering and
[0:47] management and has transitioned into
[0:49] coaching overcoming very interesting and
[0:52] compelling events herself so please
[0:55] everyone thanks for watching and please
[0:57] welcome Lam more and Lam more love for
[0:59] you to introduce thought and thanks for
[1:01] taking the time today hion yeah
[1:04] absolutely so first of all pleasure to
[1:05] be here H I think you did a pretty good
[1:09] kind of rundown so my background is uh
[1:12] in software development so I my entire
[1:15] career I was in software engineering I
[1:17] uh started as a developer and grew into
[1:22] management and along that grew also a
[1:25] family so I'm married I have four
[1:27] children and we moved also countries so
[1:29] along the way a transition like
[1:31] locations H I used to live in the US up
[1:34] until 5 years ago and
[1:36] um what else so I grew a passion I guess
[1:40] for supporting women along my career
[1:42] because I was one of very few if not the
[1:47] only uh woman in you know different
[1:50] companies different teams and the more I
[1:52] grew in my career the less women I
[1:56] saw so I felt a sense of kind of like a
[2:01] life mission I guess to to support other
[2:04] women to help other women grow and Excel
[2:06] and that's kind of what led me to what
[2:09] I'm doing today as you said I'm coaching
[2:11] I'm focusing on women and helping women
[2:14] in Tech grow their careers yeah that's
[2:17] that's really amazing so could you take
[2:19] me to that's a big transition like wow
[2:22] traveling I have a daughter myself four
[2:24] kids what that's that's a lot there and
[2:27] then managing a career while you're
[2:29] doing that going into Management in Tech
[2:31] and then making this decision
[2:33] to wow I I feel a calling to actually
[2:36] help more women can you walk me through
[2:38] maybe what was that significant moment
[2:41] that you made that realization to live
[2:43] more maybe in accordance with your
[2:45] calling or your
[2:48] character yeah I think it wasn't
[2:51] overnight it wasn't something that
[2:52] happened overnight H first as I
[2:55] mentioned I mean it's part of my work
[2:57] right on my day-to-day work because of
[2:59] was H so passionate about women I try to
[3:03] do I could in my job like with the
[3:06] influence I had to hire more women to
[3:09] help women except I mentored women pro
[3:12] bono you know for many years and um I
[3:16] was involved in in women e ogs like with
[3:20] the companies I worked at
[3:22] so so definitely I sense like a like a
[3:25] passion for that and uh what happened
[3:28] was that um when we decided to move back
[3:31] I live in Israel now so when we decided
[3:34] to move back to Israel I knew that my
[3:38] life is going to change right I mean my
[3:41] kids will have to they they were back
[3:43] then like most of their life in the US
[3:45] so they're more American than Israeli
[3:47] and it was a big transition for them so
[3:50] there's going to be a lot of change in
[3:51] my life and uh one of the things that I
[3:53] realized was that I no longer wanted to
[3:56] continue with that same thing that you
[3:58] know I was doing
[4:00] and another thing is that I was working
[4:02] fully remote since 2016 and uh it was
[4:05] preo so it wasn't that kind of a a thing
[4:08] here in Israel most companies prefer
[4:10] people coming to our office it kind of
[4:12] it it was a combination of things like I
[4:15] don't want to go back to an office I'm
[4:18] I'm fed up with corporate like done that
[4:22] been there like I want to do something
[4:24] different I'm already changing my life
[4:27] why not add another change oh wow um and
[4:30] I also you know and I also felt EV that
[4:33] if I don't do it now I will never do it
[4:36] again because when you're are
[4:38] working and you're getting paid well
[4:41] it's really hard to change it's really
[4:45] least for me it was oh wow so it was
[4:48] that move am I reading that right when
[4:49] you had that move you realized if I go
[4:52] back to corporate it's going to be hard
[4:54] to let go of the golden handcuffs
[4:56] and exactly yeah and the handcuffs get
[5:00] bigger over the years right you get paid
[5:02] more you get
[5:03] Equity it's really you have more to lose
[5:07] I would
[5:08] say um yeah so I felt like well if I'm
[5:11] not going to do it now I may not I I may
[5:14] never do it yeah you know that resonates
[5:17] so much with me as I found so many
[5:19] people in their careers as they go into
[5:22] it they just can't they they get stuck
[5:25] right they like oh when in five years
[5:27] when I have enough money I'll take start
[5:29] pursuing my passion but then they forget
[5:31] in 5 years oh now I now I'm making
[5:34] 200,000 a year now I'm making 300,000 a
[5:35] year well maybe maybe I'll wait another
[5:37] 5 years and then that quickly spirals
[5:39] into just going in retirement and then
[5:41] regret right oh maybe I missed out on
[5:43] what I was meant to do so brudos to you
[5:46] for taking that step and what is that
[5:48] looking like now so how long ago was
[5:50] that and what what does that look like
[5:51] now how many people are you helping and
[5:54] yeah so I mean I didn't know exactly
[5:57] what I'm going to do to be honest like I
[5:59] I knew that I'm going to leave
[6:00] everything a you and do something else
[6:03] so I started Consulting it first yeah so
[6:05] so five five years ago I started first
[6:08] Consulting and and along the way I you
[6:10] know mentored and and I realized oh I
[6:13] want to actually pursue a coaching
[6:15] certification so I did that and today
[6:18] like I mainly coach not just women but
[6:21] in general people in leadership
[6:23] positions um and very fortunate to to be
[6:28] doing really what love H occasionally I
[6:31] do also workshops for companies on
[6:33] different topics like one of a very
[6:36] popular topic that I did a lot of
[6:38] workshops last year was about
[6:40] negotiation persuasion which I feel like
[6:42] is a topic that no one teaches us
[6:44] especially people that like are in
[6:47] engineering like in technical roles who
[6:48] are not like sales people or anything
[6:52] like that um and anything related to
[6:56] leadership and leadership development
[6:58] and uh women ogs also run you know uh
[7:02] women e like I they bring me and I just
[7:05] facilitate several sessions ex and jous
[7:07] what in that situation what are you
[7:09] finding the pattern like what's the most
[7:12] common pattern that you're seeing that
[7:14] you're helping people through right
[7:16] now yeah H so I think like so if I'm
[7:21] talking about women that I'm coaching a
[7:23] lot of that is about what do they allow
[7:26] themselves to even dream of and think
[7:29] that they are capable of versus reality
[7:33] so and and as people like it's not just
[7:35] for women but I see it more with women a
[7:38] lot of limitations that they put on
[7:40] themselves on what is attainable for
[7:41] them and also waiting for
[7:45] permission rather than
[7:48] just do something that they want like
[7:50] for examp I'll give you an example like
[7:51] let's say you're a woman you're working
[7:54] in I don't know you're an engineering
[7:58] manager and you want to grow into a
[8:01] director
[8:02] role and there is no like specific
[8:05] opportunity right now for a director
[8:06] role and uh you know you just work and
[8:09] you're frustrated because like oh there
[8:11] are not not opportunities and I cannot
[8:13] do that and you know whatever and we
[8:16] work together on figuring out what ways
[8:19] they can actually
[8:20] start growing themselves even within the
[8:24] company without actually getting a title
[8:27] and I Know It kind of sound weird but
[8:29] there are always opportunities to do
[8:32] more there are always opportunities to
[8:34] do different different things H and also
[8:37] about like being
[8:38] transparent with the company about what
[8:41] are their career aspirations what they
[8:44] want to do maybe being less nice and and
[8:49] more kind of you know talking with their
[8:50] manager about hey how am I going to grow
[8:54] and women a lot of time we want to
[8:55] pleased we want to be nice so oh it's
[8:58] not going to be comfortable for my
[9:00] manager if I'm going to talk with him
[9:01] about my aspirations to become a
[9:03] director because maybe he doesn't have
[9:05] any opportunity to offer me right now so
[9:08] less about kind of asking for permission
[9:10] and being nice and more about like oh
[9:12] that's what I want and I'm going to take
[9:15] some proactive things to do maybe
[9:18] maybe finding some problems to solve
[9:21] that they can really make an impact and
[9:23] also like having proactive career
[9:26] discussions yeah that sounds so amazing
[9:28] and challenging I just so many things
[9:30] are firing off so uh first off I I
[9:33] respect that a lot because I came from a
[9:35] mom who is mainly like pretty much a
[9:37] single mom most of my my life and I saw
[9:39] her hit those boundaries of mix mixing
[9:42] that desire for compassion and
[9:44] agreeableness to confronting social and
[9:48] cultural boundaries right like hey I
[9:49] just want to help I'm I'm going to be
[9:51] here I don't want to cost too much I sve
[9:52] the pot too much and like you said I've
[9:54] seen it a lot where a lot of where right
[9:57] accept is being disagreeable right and
[9:59] being able to not not be rude but be
[10:01] able to put yourself forward and so um
[10:04] respect there a lot a lot of the women
[10:06] I've worked with in my career the most
[10:08] impressive woman I've worked I've seen
[10:09] them navigate that line I know
[10:11] personally that they've had some
[10:13] struggles with that like how do they put
[10:15] themselves before other people so um
[10:19] what what do you do in that situation
[10:20] what are some techniques or um do you
[10:22] take it from your personal life or where
[10:25] are you getting this from that you were
[10:26] able to accomplish it because I'm I'm
[10:28] bringing this I want to tie it into your
[10:30] story you even have it publicly you you
[10:33] applied for a leadership role when
[10:34] you're eight months pregnant which is
[10:36] that's really bold and Really Brave and
[10:38] has a lot of Courage so I'm just curious
[10:40] if you're pulling this for your
[10:41] professional personal thank you I wasn't
[10:43] that bold to be honest I mean husband
[10:46] the one my husband was the one that
[10:48] actually encouraged me I didn't even
[10:50] think it's possible I thought like who
[10:52] is going to even take me seriously but I
[10:55] mean I think to to your question Deon
[10:58] it's based on my experience but usually
[11:01] what I try to do when I'm coaching is
[11:03] not too much rely on what I did rather
[11:06] than like hey those are experiences that
[11:08] I have and I know that just doing a good
[11:12] job and waiting for someone to give you
[11:14] the permission in most case it doesn't
[11:16] work and I've seen that I've seen like
[11:19] how I behaved in a way that sabotaged my
[11:22] career and others around me mostly men
[11:25] like they were bold like they were not
[11:28] afraid to ask for for more money for a
[11:30] promotion for leadership R and and they
[11:33] got
[11:33] it so so it's part of it is like from
[11:36] experience and I know that you know what
[11:39] works and what doesn't but a lot of that
[11:41] is about realizing where this woman is
[11:43] at trying to open her mind but then
[11:46] finding what what is right for her
[11:50] because you I always kind of you know
[11:53] try to get everyone that I coach out of
[11:55] their comfort zone in the way that works
[11:58] for them that is right for them so for
[12:02] example if I want to be bold and I want
[12:05] to ask my boss for something okay like
[12:08] in my case right I I actually approach
[12:10] someone who doesn't even know me and hey
[12:14] here I am pregnant like take me I don't
[12:16] have any engineering management
[12:17] positions like this is scary I was to be
[12:20] honest with
[12:21] you but but you know maybe a I think
[12:25] actually I had a client like a while
[12:26] back she was afraid to ask for a day off
[12:29] now now that sounds to me if I'm looking
[12:33] it from my own eyes like that's
[12:35] ridiculous like you have days you should
[12:37] take a off
[12:38] off it's pretty simple but I'm trying
[12:42] really to put as side and say okay this
[12:46] woman is struggling with setting
[12:48] boundaries is struggling to to H find
[12:51] time for
[12:52] herself so the stretch for her would be
[12:55] to ask a day off does it make sense Deon
[12:59] meet people where they are right
[13:01] sometimes it's even asking for a day off
[13:04] exactly exactly so for some for one
[13:07] person it would
[13:09] be I I need to be brave enough to ask
[13:12] for a Dayal cuz I feel uncomfortable
[13:15] asking for a day off because what it
[13:16] means I'm not good enough I'm not
[13:18] dedicated enough whatever for another
[13:21] person it would be hey I go to my
[13:24] manager and
[13:26] say I think that I'm underpaid
[13:30] I think I'm contributing in that way and
[13:33] my salary doesn't really reflect that
[13:35] and I I need your help to help me kind
[13:38] of close that gap for example for
[13:42] another person that may be I really feel
[13:45] like I can give more and I can
[13:48] contribute more and this is what I
[13:50] aspire to do and I want us to work
[13:52] together towards building a plan for
[13:54] that and getting into a director a VP
[13:57] whatever that may be
[13:59] see what I mean it it depends on the
[14:01] person what is important for them where
[14:03] they're at and what is like a stretch
[14:06] but that's not going
[14:08] to that's not going to terrify them or
[14:11] break them because we don't want to
[14:12] break people right because think about
[14:14] it if you're I'll give you an analogy
[14:16] like let's say you want to train for a
[14:20] marathon okay and right now you barely
[14:23] Run
[14:24] 5K so you have to stretch yourself but
[14:28] you have to stretch yourself to the
[14:29] level that feels comfortable if you are
[14:32] a runner and you run regularly and you
[14:35] run 10ks maybe half marathons then okay
[14:38] training for a marathon may look
[14:39] different for you so a stretch should be
[14:42] really based on where you're at and what
[14:46] you can accommodate without sabotaging
[14:49] because sometimes you know when we do
[14:50] something that we are that really kind
[14:52] of shakes us that can also hurt
[14:56] us and that sounds like a really upline
[14:58] it doesn't work yeah that's a really
[15:00] tight line to walk right to stretch
[15:02] yourself and then yeah had to know
[15:04] capacity and um I'm curious you it's so
[15:07] interesting you get so many there's so
[15:08] many books on these topics but what
[15:09] you're suggesting here is so specific
[15:12] and customized to what the person is
[15:14] actually experiencing and so I'm curious
[15:16] has anyone come to you with a like they
[15:19] got bad advice or what would you say is
[15:22] bad advice when someone comes up or
[15:25] something generic that they may be
[15:27] getting advice on that youve heard and
[15:28] you have coach people out
[15:30] of yeah so I would say first of all
[15:32] about books I love books read read
[15:36] listen to podcast this is wonderful but
[15:39] the thing is there's one thing about
[15:41] reading and consuming information
[15:44] whatever you know it would be versus
[15:47] something that is coaching like that is
[15:49] personalized to you and what you need so
[15:50] first of all that's kind of the
[15:51] difference right I mean it it doesn't
[15:53] contradict each
[15:55] other I I I guess the advices that
[15:58] people give a lot of times come from
[16:01] their own personal perspective and I'll
[16:03] give you an example first on a personal
[16:05] one and one for a client so personally
[16:07] when I moved to the US I moved to Denver
[16:10] I knew no one there it was a relocation
[16:13] for my husband company okay we moved
[16:16] with very small kids and I left my job
[16:19] in Israel and I wanted to find a job in
[16:22] Engineering Management cuz that's what I
[16:24] was I was relatively Junior manager back
[16:26] then and it was D it was so hard to find
[16:31] a job like I was on a dependent Visa no
[16:33] one knew this kind of Visa no one knew
[16:35] me it was hard okay now as I was
[16:39] struggling and I was like what better
[16:42] days worse days people around me like
[16:45] family friends they told me you more you
[16:47] know why don't you just go take a
[16:50] software development role and then kind
[16:52] of build yourself
[16:55] up and I decided not to take that advice
[16:58] I I kind of appreciated that people were
[17:00] with good intention well that's not what
[17:03] I want I want to continue my leadership
[17:05] journey and eventually you know I just
[17:07] pursued on what I wanted and I got my
[17:10] first management job and it wasn't
[17:12] necessarily in the company that I wanted
[17:14] the most or in the technology that I
[17:17] wanted the most and and again people
[17:18] told me oh what is this company what do
[17:20] they do are they successful is it
[17:22] interesting like so I had to kind of
[17:26] sometimes tune out those voices and
[17:28] those opinion is and kind of listen to
[17:30] my own voice and what I wanted so this
[17:32] is one example and another example like
[17:34] I had a client that is debating between
[17:38] different career choices okay for her
[17:40] eventally she's aspiring to become like
[17:42] a VP or C VP of engineering a c of roles
[17:46] and now now she's on a junction that she
[17:48] need to choose between like two options
[17:51] one is more in the technical side still
[17:54] kind of about technical leadership and
[17:56] one is
[17:57] more man like like more leadership side
[18:00] less technical but kind of being
[18:02] responsible for more people and more
[18:04] projects and people her like oh you
[18:07] should take this like more of a
[18:10] management side but what she actually
[18:12] wants based on what I sense is the other
[18:15] thing so I didn't tell her what to
[18:18] choose but I just told her you should
[18:20] first of all listen to everyone but then
[18:22] really listen to your own voice and
[18:24] figuring
[18:25] out where do you feel like it's going to
[18:29] be interesting for you you're going to
[18:30] be passionate about it you're going to
[18:33] do what makes you feel good and you're
[18:35] going to grow and there is not only one
[18:38] way to get to where you want so I guess
[18:41] what I'm kind of in a long answer that
[18:43] to your question is like people give
[18:46] advice that maybe is good for them or
[18:49] they think is good but it may not
[18:51] necessarily be good for
[18:53] you so powerful I think that's so
[18:55] important for everyone to hear right I I
[18:57] I thought you know I'm at CPA and I
[18:59] can't tell you when I was going through
[19:00] CPA for with how many people like d day
[19:02] until you make partner or say until you
[19:04] make senior manager but they were all
[19:06] burners the theor managers they're going
[19:07] to tell you what work for them right but
[19:09] yes I hear it's such great advice so be
[19:12] careful on if the advice is actually
[19:15] resonates with your authen like you
[19:17] authentically and do you have to do some
[19:19] of the self-work there and that's where
[19:21] you come in right is you're not pushing
[19:23] an agenda you're not giving any advice
[19:26] um maybe you'll give advice if asked or
[19:28] if you bring this to suggestion but it's
[19:29] more like figuring out what that person
[19:31] really wants and their passions and
[19:32] their desires and how they can get that
[19:34] right is that am I hearing that right
[19:36] yeah I try to refrain from giving advice
[19:39] but do but take into account I mean it's
[19:41] not black or white like as a coach we're
[19:44] not there to give advice as we're not
[19:46] there I'm not there to tell you what to
[19:48] do um but sometimes people are lost and
[19:51] they need a perspective so they ask me
[19:53] some questions and I try to help answer
[19:55] them the best I can but I would really
[19:58] I'm I'm really trying to refrain from
[20:00] telling someone what to do and like
[20:04] especially when they need to make
[20:06] decisions that are really critical for
[20:08] them and important and will maybe
[20:12] impact their next year or two it's not
[20:16] my place even if I think and my personal
[20:19] opinion doesn't matter also cuz it's
[20:21] about them it's not about what I think
[20:23] it's about what is good for them so how
[20:26] how do you help someone through that so
[20:27] it someone's stuck I say you have um
[20:29] someone who come in who's Stu is trying
[20:31] to figure out what to do next in their
[20:33] career how do you help them work through
[20:36] that self work or what steps do they
[20:38] need to
[20:39] take yeah so we try to work on different
[20:42] angles like first of all I
[20:44] mean what do they like doing what do
[20:48] they enjoy doing that would be cool
[20:50] right to do a job you like
[20:52] yeah yeah but it doesn't have to be the
[20:54] thing is that at least I'll tell you I
[20:57] was conditioned to to think when I grew
[21:00] up H that a job is like is there to
[21:04] provide for your family like if you like
[21:07] it great that's an added bonus you don't
[21:10] have to enjoy what you're doing
[21:12] but I I don't think that's that's how it
[21:15] should be it should be like it's not
[21:17] always 100% right we don't enjoy
[21:19] everything we do but you should be on a
[21:22] place where you feel like you're
[21:24] actually doing something that is
[21:25] enjoyable otherwise what's the purpose
[21:28] like St
[21:29] and and do something you hate so at
[21:32] least kind of try to think about okay
[21:33] what what do you and even reflect on
[21:36] like what what have you done so far what
[21:39] did you enjoy the most like I had a
[21:40] woman that was in QA okay and and she
[21:44] wasn't sure what to do next and I fed up
[21:46] with QA I don't want to do QA so we try
[21:49] to reflect back what do you like doing
[21:51] on what aspect then you know we found
[21:53] out that actually based after we we
[21:55] talked for sessions like what she was
[21:59] liking the most is kind of kind of leans
[22:02] more to a
[22:03] Devo of Automation and like things like
[22:07] that and then I said well have you
[22:09] thought about that like what are you
[22:10] telling me a lot of the things that you
[22:12] you like doing and you did also took
[22:14] initiative it's kind of sounding to me a
[22:16] lot like devops what do you
[22:19] think and and then I I just
[22:23] open it was like I opened a box for her
[22:27] like oh my God I haven't thought about
[22:28] it so she started and I okay go explore
[22:31] what is the devops do we like it maybe
[22:33] do so you see what I mean so a lot of
[22:36] that is like trying to open your mind to
[22:39] even a
[22:40] possibility that exists to you to look
[22:42] at what you like and also a lot of times
[22:44] you have to think maybe a bit a little
[22:46] bit long term and look at what are some
[22:48] Ro Role Models you look up to like for
[22:52] example I knew that I wanted to become a
[22:54] manager when I was a very Junior
[22:56] engineer and I mean not always it was
[22:59] super clear but but I can tell you that
[23:01] I have a manager one of my managers that
[23:04] I really aspire to become like him I
[23:07] really respected him I appreciated him I
[23:09] saw what he was doing said wow I want to
[23:11] be like him when I grow up so sometimes
[23:14] it's about having a role model like you
[23:16] said like if you look at other you know
[23:19] in your in your industry like Partners
[23:21] or whatever I mean you look at them and
[23:23] said maybe that's not what I want that
[23:26] works so what do you want maybe try to
[23:29] look at oh try to look of different
[23:31] people and what they do and see what
[23:34] resonates with you what what feels
[23:36] like something that you would like to do
[23:38] and maybe it's not in the near term
[23:40] maybe it's something that you need to
[23:42] build towards and sometimes that can
[23:44] help you also figure out oh if I want to
[23:46] go and eventually become a manager and
[23:49] now I'm just starting my career okay I'm
[23:52] I'm just an engineer what do I what do I
[23:54] need to do in order to build those
[23:56] skills maybe I need to take on myself
[23:58] more
[23:59] kind of a h task that are requiring more
[24:02] communication with other teams more
[24:05] working with different people so see
[24:07] what I mean if it makes sense no I mean
[24:09] that's all pop to your golden advice and
[24:12] not easy right it's like follow your
[24:15] passions do things you like and that
[24:17] you're good at make sure that you're
[24:19] leaning into that figure out what you
[24:20] want I can't tell you how many people I
[24:22] meet and when I start talking to them I
[24:25] ask them what do you want and the
[24:26] response actually I don't know I have't
[24:28] thought about what I want to know for a
[24:29] long time I'm just trying to make money
[24:31] and and that that output and I I really
[24:34] like what you said there about um
[24:37] finding a role model that you actually
[24:38] want a model after that can help people
[24:40] find what they want and then even the
[24:41] bridging a lot of people I've seen come
[24:44] to me and say I really want to become a
[24:46] leader in this in this space but then
[24:48] they don't have the they need a stepping
[24:50] stone like oh maybe you need to get this
[24:53] experience or certification so that's
[24:54] all amazing amazing advice and that
[24:56] makes sense and but you got to figure
[24:58] out where they're at go to go back to
[24:59] your earlier point
[25:01] right yeah and and if you aspire to
[25:03] become someone I don't know in the
[25:05] future maybe you are like a manager and
[25:07] you want to become a CTO okay and and
[25:09] there is a huge gap from where you're at
[25:11] then talk to people talk to people may
[25:13] maybe reach out to a few people and and
[25:15] try to get an understanding from them
[25:17] okay what have they done what worked for
[25:19] them get get a broader
[25:21] perspective so you can try to figure out
[25:23] you know what they do and then choose
[25:25] what what makes sense for you and so so
[25:28] with
[25:29] that what
[25:32] is what's been one of the lessons either
[25:36] personally or that you've seen someone
[25:39] experience through your coaching
[25:41] practice I mean for me the toughest
[25:43] lesson was that
[25:47] um I just uh
[25:49] thought that I need to do a good job and
[25:52] that's
[25:53] it and I learned a hard way that it
[25:56] doesn't work so I saw people around me
[25:58] like as I said like being promoted and I
[26:01] was stuck so I I learned the hard way
[26:04] that uh you always need to be your your
[26:07] Advocate right to advocate for yourself
[26:09] and
[26:10] to to know what you want to be very
[26:14] proactive around it and to strive for
[26:16] that and and work with you know a
[26:19] company or you know whatever to to
[26:20] advance yourself and when at points in
[26:24] my career when I realized that that's
[26:25] what I need to do it happened right I
[26:28] became a manager we moved to the US I
[26:30] continue being a manager then I wanted
[26:32] to be a director that intentionality and
[26:35] being super focused about that and
[26:39] worked for me and it also worked for my
[26:41] client so don't wait for someone to hand
[26:44] you
[26:45] something just figure out what you want
[26:48] and and start working towards that and
[26:51] get people along the way to help you
[26:53] whether it's a manager HR mentors
[26:55] sponsors allies whatever you need
[26:59] I love that yeah Brew yourself in your
[27:00] character figure out the people around
[27:02] you who can support you and then going
[27:04] to strive for a calling or making sure
[27:06] you the capacity to reach that calling I
[27:07] think that's amazing so how do you how
[27:10] do you get someone to ship that mindset
[27:11] that's I feel like that's such a
[27:12] countercultural mindset um hey I can't
[27:16] tell you like hey work here for four
[27:17] four years and then you'll get a
[27:19] promotion and then you move up to the
[27:20] next rank but then people realize they
[27:22] get disillusioned they get in there and
[27:24] to your point and I'm sorry I'm
[27:25] empathetic that really is horror when
[27:27] you're in there and you work the years
[27:28] and you do everything right and then you
[27:30] realize there's no opportunity and you
[27:32] feel like you've wasted a bunch of time
[27:34] and now you don't know where to go next
[27:35] because there's no Playbook how do you
[27:37] get people to realize that mindset that
[27:39] you're talking about from hey you got to
[27:41] take agency and be intentional yourself
[27:44] rather than relying on some corporate
[27:47] formula yeah uh it depends on the person
[27:52] I mean it's not as you said it's not
[27:54] always easy for people to change the way
[27:57] they think I try a lot to challenge them
[28:00] to challenge them about like let's say
[28:01] someone feels stuck okay they feel like
[28:04] they have no opportunity so I try to
[28:06] challenge them okay let's
[28:09] assume you're working you know for four
[28:13] years and there is doesn't seem to be an
[28:15] opportunity for you what are the
[28:18] opportunities that you have for doing
[28:20] something that you've never done to
[28:22] bring value to make a difference to
[28:25] solve a problem maybe no one is solving
[28:28] because typically in most companies
[28:30] there is more work I mean at least all
[28:32] the companies I work that there is more
[28:34] work than people leadership is always
[28:38] needed leaders are always
[28:41] needed and leader doesn't mean to be
[28:43] like to have a specific title but there
[28:45] are always problems to solve so I'm
[28:48] encouraging people to try to think
[28:49] differently like I ask them questions
[28:51] like okay you're you're saying you're
[28:52] stuck you're saying there is no open
[28:55] role okay that's okay I'm not arguing
[28:58] with that but what else can you do what
[29:02] what what will make a difference and
[29:05] will maybe stretch you a little bit to
[29:07] do something you have never done before
[29:09] and when I start asking them this
[29:11] questions maybe they don't know so okay
[29:13] maybe you can try to think about it a
[29:15] little bit and figure out maybe ask your
[29:18] manager what are they struggling
[29:21] with to to think outside the box of like
[29:24] what what opportunities you have within
[29:25] the company and if you don't feel like
[29:28] there is any
[29:30] opportunity you know where you're at
[29:32] maybe maybe this is time to think about
[29:34] whether you want to stay there or not
[29:36] check and and and sometimes you know
[29:38] when I work with people sometimes they
[29:40] realize that actually well maybe they're
[29:44] at the end of the rad at a specific
[29:46] place and that's okay it happens
[29:48] sometimes right I mean not from bad
[29:50] intentions or for bad people I mean it
[29:52] just happens could be that they're in
[29:54] the end of the Rope at a specific place
[29:57] and they realize it's it's about to take
[29:59] a bold step forward and move and it's
[30:02] really hard right I mean it's really
[30:03] hard for people to make that a lot of
[30:05] times to make that decision that well
[30:08] maybe it's time for me to move on and uh
[30:11] do something else or work for a
[30:14] different company so I need to step out
[30:15] of my comfort zone I need to start maybe
[30:18] reaching out to people I need to
[30:20] interview whatever and um that's usually
[30:23] a tough decision for people to
[30:26] make based on what I've seen at Le
[30:28] especially with women yeah it seems so
[30:30] powerful right so I'm hearing like I
[30:32] imagine you know the donkey with visor
[30:34] on or the horse with visor on and you're
[30:36] really trying to take them off and say
[30:38] like listen there's a whole world out
[30:40] there and maybe you're surrounding
[30:41] yourself with people who are in this
[30:42] little box that you're trying to open it
[30:44] up um and that could be really jarring
[30:46] for people like okay now you can see but
[30:49] it's scary to go off the off the right
[30:51] the Tron hat it's scary I absolutely
[30:53] agree with you it's scary even if you
[30:55] decide to stay in the same company and
[30:58] there are opportunities for you to do
[31:00] something that maybe is not written in
[31:02] your job description right but can
[31:04] really help you develop some skills it's
[31:07] scary because like oh what if someone is
[31:10] going to tell me you know no what if
[31:12] someone is going
[31:13] to be wondering why I'm doing that so
[31:16] yeah it's scary absolutely yeah having
[31:19] that Clarity but at least you kind of
[31:20] realize that go ahead go ahead you me
[31:22] but at least you realize you have a
[31:23] choice at least you realize you have a
[31:25] choice because if you think like there
[31:28] is no way I'm stuck then you don't have
[31:30] any choice but if you realize well I
[31:32] have choices I just need to figure out
[31:35] what choice do I make then it's a
[31:38] different
[31:40] question yeah like not making a choice
[31:42] is still the choice right like deciding
[31:44] to stay is still a choice
[31:45] right that's still a choice
[31:48] yeah I'm curious and it's okay if you
[31:51] don't want to go in this path I'm just
[31:52] curious how do you balance those career
[31:54] amb Ambitions career Ambitions with the
[31:57] personal and family Ambitions especially
[32:00] like me I just so to to relate for a
[32:02] little bit like I wanted I'm very
[32:04] involved in my daughter's life and it's
[32:05] been on the other side of it it's been
[32:07] an interesting Dynamic for my wife and I
[32:09] like encouraging her to go to her career
[32:11] but then also making sure that I have
[32:13] the time to do like bedtime at home and
[32:14] it's tough for me to talk to other men
[32:16] about yeah hey I can't take a 600 p.m.
[32:18] meeting I want to do bedtime tonight
[32:19] it's a like it's an interesting cultural
[32:21] Dynamic and there's sacrifices there to
[32:23] set those boundaries up and you have a
[32:24] unique perspective of I mean it's an
[32:27] amazing journey right
[32:28] going through these Tech leadership also
[32:30] being a mom and raising such an amazing
[32:32] like amazing large family and coaching
[32:35] and developing others to the
[32:36] process yeah I mean this is a valid
[32:39] question um that I think there is no one
[32:42] answer I think you need to figure out
[32:45] what is right for you and
[32:46] unapologetically do it so and I'll tell
[32:49] you why so for women a lot of times
[32:51] there is some pressure because Society
[32:53] expect us to do great to be great moms
[32:56] to take care of the kids you know to do
[32:58] a lot of things and you know I chose I
[33:01] made a lot of sacrifices in my career H
[33:04] because when I started my career I mean
[33:06] working from home was not a thing like
[33:08] you couldn't work from home it wasn't
[33:09] possible years
[33:12] ago yeah but think about it even before
[33:15] that and and it's like for years I mean
[33:18] I I came home like not before 6:30 p.m.
[33:22] not before even sometimes later and yeah
[33:25] I didn't I didn't pick up my kids from
[33:27] my take her and that was a choice I made
[33:30] and I knew that I'm making that choice
[33:32] but I made that choice because I felt
[33:35] that that was the right thing for my
[33:37] career and yeah Society may look and I
[33:40] was like to be honest I was probably one
[33:43] of the only moms if not the only that
[33:47] didn't come to daycare to pick up the
[33:48] kids at 4: 4:30
[33:51] p.m. so you you have to really figure
[33:53] out what's right for you so what was
[33:55] right for me may not necessarily be
[33:57] right for you or for someone else so
[34:00] figuring out what is right for you what
[34:02] do you need what do you want and uh how
[34:07] how can that
[34:09] work does it make sense yeah it goes
[34:11] back to that authenticity or figuring
[34:13] what you really want and I think it's um
[34:16] and not what others expect from you yeah
[34:18] and yeah it's so easy to go into that
[34:20] societal expectation like for me like oh
[34:23] Devon wants to leave early to go take
[34:25] care of his daughter like why does he
[34:27] want to stay stale that might be more
[34:29] important to me while my wife like she
[34:31] she FS that expectation sometimes she'll
[34:33] drop off my daughter at 8 um in the
[34:35] morning and then none of the other moms
[34:37] are doing that and she'll like why are
[34:38] why is she that person it's like well
[34:40] your career is important and Evelyn they
[34:41] still a great mom it doesn't change any
[34:43] aspect about that stop thinking about
[34:45] when other people think about you and
[34:46] just make sure you're living in
[34:48] accordance with your values and
[34:49] character right so that's a huge huge
[34:52] great message yeah
[34:54] yeah and I'll tell you something I mean
[34:56] h for years when my kids were very
[34:58] little I don't know how how old is your
[35:01] uh uh your daughter I mean when my kids
[35:04] were little I mean I literally have
[35:08] almost zero time to
[35:10] myself it was really
[35:13] difficult like I was either working or a
[35:17] or being a mom a wife housekeeper you
[35:21] name it like like literally like it was
[35:25] all about work work at home like kids it
[35:29] was
[35:30] hard and
[35:33] uh and you know I don't know if I could
[35:35] do things differently but I knew that
[35:39] those years eventually will pass and
[35:42] things will get easier I try to hire
[35:44] help as much as I could but some things
[35:46] you cannot Outsource right you cannot
[35:48] Outsource someone to be with your kids
[35:52] to to read a bed time story or you know
[35:55] whatever so and those years pass and
[35:58] then they grow up so H but I would say
[36:02] try to find some time for yourself even
[36:04] if it's
[36:05] just few minutes a
[36:08] day just for you so you can kind of take
[36:12] care of yourself which I haven't done
[36:14] for years so I'm kind of looking back
[36:17] and I wish I you know at some point in
[36:19] my uh I remember that I really wanted to
[36:22] work out and I tried several times to
[36:24] work out very very early in the morning
[36:25] unfortunately I'm not
[36:28] a morning person so it didn't
[36:30] sustain and then I remember one day I
[36:33] realized okay I am going to schedule
[36:36] like classes in the evenings like twice
[36:39] a week I'm going to Pilates no matter
[36:41] what doesn't matter and kind of I set
[36:44] that time for myself and my husband my
[36:46] kids they knew I'm not at home and I put
[36:49] myself first smart at the beginning I
[36:51] felt
[36:53] guilt I'm not a good mom I'm leaving my
[36:55] kids at home cuz I'm going to
[36:59] padus I
[37:02] guess I guess like you need to take care
[37:04] of yourself as well not
[37:06] just home kids work well that's so
[37:10] powerful right you and that's very very
[37:13] important is you can't take care of
[37:15] others unless you take care of yourself
[37:17] right and you can't save others unless
[37:19] yourself are saved so I appreciate I
[37:21] when the time of running out fast I
[37:22] think I could talk to you forever so I
[37:24] know you got to go maybe I can ask a few
[37:27] quick question questions to make sure we
[37:28] land This Plane properly and I hope yeah
[37:30] maybe we do this again sometime this is
[37:32] really fun I I love getting to know you
[37:33] so what is what are you trying to do in
[37:36] 2025 what's your goals for 2025 and what
[37:39] are you trying to accomplish with your
[37:41] practice so one of the things that they
[37:43] really want to try in
[37:44] 2025 is to combine onetoone coaching
[37:49] with with a
[37:51] cohort because I feel like I've seen
[37:54] that in the women ERG groups that they
[37:56] LED that there is
[37:58] a really
[37:59] powerful uh strength in a group so I'm
[38:02] I'm I'm currently working on uh kind of
[38:05] thinking about a program that will kind
[38:07] of combine like okay you get a
[38:08] one-on-one coaching but also we meet as
[38:11] a group and you build like you buil some
[38:14] some uh relationship with other women
[38:16] that are maybe are in similar situation
[38:20] as you are like and uh also you kind of
[38:23] have some kind of group coaching
[38:25] sessions together
[38:27] oh I love I love that idea you have
[38:29] people to do yeah people are together
[38:31] that I love is there anything my network
[38:33] or my audience could do to supports you
[38:35] in amplifying your mission like what's a
[38:37] way that either me or other coaches or
[38:40] other podcasters or people on LinkedIn
[38:42] can help you get that
[38:44] across definitely I mean follow me and
[38:47] uh if you find my content valuable or
[38:50] either to you or to someone else share
[38:53] it with the world another thing I'm very
[38:55] passionate about is my podcast from a
[38:57] woman to a leader so I want to invite
[38:59] you and others to uh to listen and also
[39:02] to share it with anyone you feel it's
[39:05] going to be valuable for yeah we'll make
[39:07] sure to put that all in the links and
[39:08] make sure to distribute it to everyone
[39:10] on link and everything too so um where
[39:12] can people find you and connect with you
[39:14] I mean you'll send me send me your stuff
[39:15] so I can I'll add it to the description
[39:17] but um what's the best way to contact
[39:19] you yeah the best way LinkedIn that's
[39:22] the best way I'm
[39:25] there all the time so just follow me on
[39:28] LinkedIn and you'll get to I think
[39:31] you'll get to know me a little bit if
[39:33] you follow me that's great and then as a
[39:36] person yeah I Le it yeah that's great
[39:38] that you're so authentic last one and
[39:40] then I know you got to go a final words
[39:42] of encouragement for everyone like if
[39:43] you were to get imagine you're going on
[39:45] a shot you're going to save like your
[39:47] one your 10c short what's what's
[39:50] something that you would give to take
[39:51] away to everyone today no matter where
[39:54] you are right now if situation seems
[39:57] dire if you seem like
[39:59] stuck there is always always a way
[40:02] forward and there are always
[40:04] opportunities there are always think so
[40:06] I want to encourage you to adopt an
[40:09] abundance mindset and always ask
[40:12] yourself where are the
[40:14] opportunities and you'll find them oh I
[40:17] love that thank you so much thanks for
[40:19] taking the time today have a great rest
[40:20] of your day and um I'll catch up with
[40:23] you thank you Deon it was really a
[40:24] pleasure yeah this a lot of fun I hope
[40:26] to stay in touch what
[40:31] [Music]
[40:44] [Music]
[41:08] [Music]
[41:34] [Music]
[41:43] [Music]
[41:48] [Music]
[42:00] [Music]
[42:11] [Music]
[42:38] [Music]
[42:46] [Applause]
[42:48] [Music]
[42:56] [Music]