YouTube transcript
Video ID: 7BKV-DkfQi0
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] I like to run, but I don't think a lot
[0:01] of people are aware that I've now
[0:04] completed 51 marathons. Pain is
[0:06] temporary and it's planned for the long
[0:08] haul. Never let best be the evil of
[0:11] better.
[0:12] >> I'm hearing a tolerance for risk. Maybe
[0:14] married with an interest in adventure
[0:16] and learning something new.
[0:18] >> Finance partnership is is very similar
[0:20] in the way that it's more than just the
[0:22] numbers, right? It's about really
[0:24] understanding the business that you're
[0:26] supporting. You kind of stole my next
[0:27] question from me because that's that's
[0:29] exactly what I was going to ask is, "Hey
[0:30] everybody, welcome to Ambition Aligned.
[0:32] Today I am talking to my friend Melissa
[0:34] who has led finance teams across global
[0:37] giants like Oracle, Hitachi, and
[0:39] Workday, guiding product and
[0:40] infrastructure teams through highstakes
[0:42] transformations all the way from shrink
[0:44] wrapping CDs to global cloud
[0:47] infrastructure and AI changes in these
[0:50] tech giants. But beyond the boardroom,
[0:52] she's also an endurance athlete who's
[0:54] completed 51 marathons and became the
[0:56] first woman to run a marathon at the
[0:58] geographic North Pole. In this episode,
[1:00] we explore the mindset it takes to go
[1:02] through those extreme conditions,
[1:04] whether navigating billion-dollar
[1:05] changes or running on a floating sheet
[1:07] of ice with polar bear guards. Let's
[1:09] dive in. Hey Melissa, it's so good to
[1:10] see you again. I really appreciate you
[1:12] taking the time. Um, I would love for
[1:14] you to explain to the audience. They're
[1:16] all going to be really excited to hear
[1:17] about what it was like to go from your
[1:19] early career to leading global finance
[1:22] teams and what's really defined your
[1:24] journey.
[1:24] >> Well, I think you're going to hear in a
[1:26] moment u my journey has not been a
[1:28] straight line and what's kind of guided
[1:30] me um unconsciously really has been the
[1:34] idea of just finding interesting roles
[1:36] and interesting um companies and people.
[1:40] Um, for example, when I first started my
[1:42] career, in addition to some bookkeeping
[1:44] jobs, uh, I started with a software
[1:49] startup. And back then, software is not
[1:52] what you think of today. It was where
[1:55] companies burn CDs. And so, the company
[1:59] was actually what my first day I
[2:02] remember very vividly. I came in to to
[2:05] say hello and I see scraps of paper on a
[2:08] desk and the team was shrink wrapping
[2:11] and and pressing seeds and shipping them
[2:13] out and I realized I asked anyone does
[2:17] anyone collecting any of the money and
[2:19] they were like oh that's not my job. So,
[2:22] I learned pretty quickly that uh maybe I
[2:24] should set up an accounting system and
[2:27] uh very basic accounting system and
[2:30] learn pretty much everything on the fly
[2:32] of how to run a business from start to
[2:35] finish, covering pay payroll and all the
[2:38] stresses around the small business. Um
[2:41] but really the next job right after that
[2:43] was couldn't be any more different. It
[2:44] was at uh Honeywell. For some reason, I
[2:48] was able to get a job at head of at
[2:50] Penny for their space systems division.
[2:53] I've never been in a corporate job and
[2:55] so this was brand new to me and um
[2:58] fantastic. Space systems was a division
[3:01] where they were doing all of the avionic
[3:05] equipment for the space shuttle, which
[3:07] of course doesn't exist anymore. Um but
[3:10] it really was fantastic experience in my
[3:14] first entree of real technology. Um and
[3:18] before I knew it I also learned a lot of
[3:20] things like government contracting
[3:22] um FPNA. I pretty much learned that on
[3:25] the fly. Um and took on a number of
[3:28] roles because the company is so large.
[3:30] You can just migrate into different
[3:31] roles. And one of the jobs that I also
[3:33] had was somehow I found myself in this
[3:36] role called internal controls and uh
[3:39] right when serving Oxley passed and that
[3:41] was what 2002
[3:43] um and I led uh the certification for
[3:47] socks Honeywell's first year. Um and it
[3:51] it was amazing it you know you just kind
[3:53] of learned and figured out I mean in
[3:55] that time no one knew anything. No one
[3:58] knew what to do. There was no there was
[3:59] no uh history on that. So we we all
[4:02] learned together. Um took a number of
[4:05] different roles but then uh kept in
[4:07] touch with a lot of leadership and
[4:08] management and uh went to a company
[4:12] called Freescale Semiconductor which was
[4:15] a spin-off of Motorola. They got rid of
[4:18] their semiconductor business and so it
[4:20] was like a multi-billion dollar startup
[4:23] because they had to be on their own and
[4:25] develop their own processes and I was in
[4:28] what they call financial controller
[4:29] which is like FPNA at that time and
[4:32] that's a crazy business high volume low
[4:34] margins knew nothing about
[4:36] semiconductors
[4:38] um did that for a number of years and
[4:39] found my way through a a prior boss to
[4:42] Hitachi data systems which started
[4:45] marrying uh some of the experience of
[4:48] hardware and industrial with software.
[4:51] Um and throughout that journey learned a
[4:54] lot. I worked a lot with um
[4:56] international business. Honeywell was
[4:57] very international. So I really enjoyed
[4:59] that and I kept it going as I went all
[5:02] the way through to Hitachi which which
[5:04] is a Japanese company which we were very
[5:06] global. So I got to learn a lot more in
[5:09] depth about Japan and how to do business
[5:12] with you know other cultures. Um, and
[5:15] then that was around the time where the
[5:17] cloud was born. So, another
[5:19] transformation of of things that you
[5:21] wouldn't see in your lifetime. Um, and I
[5:25] got an opportunity to work over at
[5:26] Oracle who was rewriting all of their
[5:30] software for the cloud. Um, and this is
[5:33] at the time where nobody even knew, I
[5:35] mean, what a cloud was. And the idea
[5:37] that music could be with you no matter
[5:39] where you went was like awesome. And I
[5:43] remember even seeing my first Tesla and
[5:45] that was like the coolest thing in the
[5:46] whole world like they that they had a
[5:49] computer in their car. Um but the point
[5:52] was is uh I really enjoyed just
[5:56] exploring new opportunities and new
[5:58] industries and not being afraid of just
[6:02] learning something new and trying
[6:04] something that I've never done before.
[6:05] and I was uh got an opportunity where
[6:08] people trusted enough to just give me a
[6:10] try because I I could figure it out. So,
[6:14] >> well, I I love the story and it's an
[6:15] amazing arc there of going from a shrink
[6:18] wrapping CDs where I I was in music I
[6:20] was in recording studio was my first
[6:21] business. So, um so I I knew that very
[6:24] well to cloud music where we've gone
[6:27] consumptionbased and now the AI
[6:30] revolution and you've kind of seen it
[6:31] all. you see from beginning to beginning
[6:33] to now, which is just fascinating and
[6:35] amazing. And I I'm sure there's so many
[6:38] surprises along the way. And I think
[6:40] something that I already appreciate
[6:41] about you is the figuring it out. Like I
[6:43] meet so many young professionals or even
[6:45] midcare career professionals who are
[6:47] scared to make a next step because
[6:49] >> they don't know enough or they're
[6:51] worried they're going to lose their job
[6:52] or all all of that. And I'm hearing a
[6:55] tolerance for risk maybe married with a
[6:58] an interest in adventure and learning
[7:00] something new and willing to take on
[7:02] that risk which really benefited you
[7:03] throughout your career and everyone can
[7:04] learn from. So I'm curious though, you
[7:06] have so many surprising steps there.
[7:09] What's something that people are
[7:10] surprised to learn about you whether
[7:13] through work or just your overall
[7:14] adventures in life?
[7:17] >> Well, I think um a number of people
[7:20] don't really know. They know I like to
[7:21] run, but I don't think a lot of people
[7:23] are aware that I've now completed 51
[7:26] marathons. I can't believe I've
[7:28] completed 51 marathon u including every
[7:31] single continent and most recently the
[7:35] North Pole, the geographic North Pole.
[7:37] So, that's probably something that most
[7:39] people don't know about me. Maybe my
[7:42] close my close friends.
[7:44] >> How How do you run across the North
[7:45] Pole? Do you need special shoes or like
[7:47] that's that's I mean that's amazing. 51.
[7:49] Most people can't even get one in.
[7:50] That's just phenomenal.
[7:52] >> Well, they're not super fast, but but uh
[7:54] yeah, actually, we took an icebreaker
[7:57] ship. Um there are there's a luxury
[8:00] like, you know, people apparently do
[8:02] this enjoy to go up to the North Pole.
[8:05] It's all ice. People forget there's no
[8:06] land and it's floating ice. And we went
[8:09] in the summertime and the ice is only
[8:12] about a meter thick. And so it sounds
[8:15] completely crazy, but a ship goes up to
[8:18] the geographic north, drops down their
[8:21] ding plank on some good solid perimeter
[8:25] device that the captain selects, and you
[8:28] just get off and you walk. And so this
[8:31] company, Runbuck, um actually hosted the
[8:33] very first one on the geographic Nord,
[8:37] and we were the guinea pigs and um
[8:41] you know, mapped out a little course
[8:42] with little flags. Um they what's unique
[8:46] about this race is that um they've never
[8:49] done it, but also because it's
[8:51] summertime there's bears. People don't
[8:53] think about it, but the North Pole has
[8:55] got polar bears. So before you're even
[8:57] allowed out there, they have polar
[8:59] guards that uh not only check the depth
[9:02] of the ice that it's a good solid piece
[9:04] that we're we're all letting everyone on
[9:06] to, but then they have to have a bear
[9:08] guard perimeter just in case. And we did
[9:11] see bears. Not when we ran, but on the
[9:13] voyage. We actually did see polar bears.
[9:15] It's crazy. Amazing.
[9:18] >> What happens when you see the polar
[9:19] bears? The bear guards go and like try
[9:21] to block or
[9:22] >> they have guns. They what they do is
[9:23] they face uh away from you. They're
[9:26] they're per said a round perimeter.
[9:28] They're facing away from you. The ship
[9:30] is on one side where it blocks. And then
[9:33] then you have another perimeter where
[9:34] you stay within the ice that they know
[9:36] has been solid enough. There's no holes.
[9:38] But we actually had to run with um life
[9:43] vests as crazy as that sounds. So it's
[9:46] not even bad enough that the the terrain
[9:48] is really tough. But those things are
[9:50] heavy. I'm telling you, they really are
[9:52] heavy. And so yeah, just just what you
[9:55] want to do is add it's like adding a few
[9:57] more what five to seven more pounds on
[9:59] you.
[10:00] >> Talk about hard mode. You know, it's
[10:01] like, oh yeah, I'm going to run on the
[10:03] North Pole 50 mar after 50 marathons
[10:06] with polar bears with a life fest on.
[10:09] And like the guys with
[10:10] >> But to answer your question, the shoes
[10:12] the shoes, they're actually they're
[10:14] Solomon. They're actually they're snow
[10:16] running shoes. They're unisex. Uh but
[10:21] there are running snowshoes and it keeps
[10:23] your feet dry. I was probably one of the
[10:25] few people that had the the dry feet
[10:27] because it's summer and that's it's
[10:28] melting, right? There's a lot of snow
[10:30] that's melting, but um yeah, there are
[10:32] snowshoe running shoes if you can
[10:33] believe it.
[10:34] >> Wow. Well, I I probably could talk to
[10:36] you about the whole I I have so many
[10:37] questions there and how you got into it
[10:39] and what triggered you continuing it,
[10:42] but I I know we only have so much time,
[10:44] but that's that's fascinating. I'm
[10:46] curious what was harder for you um
[10:48] training for that and doing all these
[10:50] marathons or some of the challenges
[10:51] you've had with cloud migration and
[10:53] technology over the years with your
[10:55] companies?
[10:55] >> No doubt it's it's cloud migration.
[10:58] uh the that's the other stuff is just
[11:01] you right it's just myself you know you
[11:04] can train I mean you can do all those
[11:05] other things but yeah things like cloud
[11:08] migration there's so many more people
[11:10] involved there's so much it's so much
[11:12] more complex I would say
[11:14] >> yeah leading people other than yourself
[11:16] is always such a challenge right
[11:19] >> well with that I'm really curious what
[11:22] what does strong finance partnership
[11:24] look like to you especially when you
[11:26] have to do what you've done and lead and
[11:28] motivate and influence large
[11:30] international global teams to reach an
[11:33] outcome.
[11:34] Yeah, I think um true partnership I
[11:37] think relates especially finance
[11:40] partnership is is very similar in the
[11:42] way that it's more than just the
[11:44] numbers, right? I think we've always
[11:46] heard it's more about the it's about
[11:48] really understanding the business that
[11:49] you're supporting. If you're talking
[11:51] technology like product or engineering
[11:54] or businesses that are highly technical,
[11:58] the bar is raised even higher for
[11:59] finance. Um you you really do need to
[12:02] understand not just the general business
[12:04] but you really need to understand what
[12:06] you're building, what the technology is.
[12:09] Um because finance partnership is truly
[12:12] that adding value. And if you don't
[12:14] understand the technology or what
[12:16] they're building or what their
[12:18] challenges are, you're not going to be
[12:20] able to add much to the conversation. Um
[12:23] so you you have that added uh
[12:25] requirement to really understand
[12:29] the technology
[12:31] uh to a certain level such that you can
[12:33] have a conversation you can understand
[12:34] where um the pain points can be
[12:37] financially as well as strategically
[12:40] with the business.
[12:42] Where did you develop that skill set?
[12:43] Because this is something I've noticed
[12:44] too in my chief of staff role at Google,
[12:46] like the best executives weren't
[12:48] necessarily the ones that knew the most
[12:50] or could get the most done, but they
[12:52] were the ones who could understand and
[12:54] tell the story, which was really
[12:56] challenging, especially for very
[12:57] technical professionals. So, where did
[12:59] you pick up that skill set and how did
[13:01] you learn it?
[13:02] >> Well, I think yeah, it's funny. I I had
[13:04] always thought about, you know, first of
[13:06] all, you have to I think you have to
[13:08] enjoy it, right? I think you have to
[13:09] first understand or really be they
[13:12] always hear they be curious you always
[13:14] hear that oh be curious and asking
[13:16] questions but I think if you don't
[13:17] really enjoy it or you are are truly not
[13:21] the curious true curious is you're
[13:23] enjoying it you really want to
[13:24] understand and you think I always
[13:27] thought it's just cool these these
[13:28] engineers are so cool and one of my
[13:30] early jobs at Honeywell um the joke was
[13:34] they it is rocket science and these are
[13:37] rocket scientists it really is rocking
[13:39] and these guys I I just I picked up
[13:43] early on uh that that engineers think
[13:46] differently and someone explained this
[13:48] to me and I to me it it resonates.
[13:52] Engineers think I call it like this.
[13:54] They think this way. They they talk very
[13:57] detailed and then they get to a summary.
[14:00] But all of us and you know finance and
[14:04] English majors or what have you always
[14:06] were taught this way you know get to the
[14:09] point and then elaborate your details
[14:11] and so you can imagine the communication
[14:13] problem you're going to have between
[14:15] these two if you don't understand that
[14:18] and aren't patient enough to get and
[14:21] curious and ask a lot of questions. Um
[14:24] but again I always thought it was really
[14:26] cool of what they did. I wanted to learn
[14:28] and I was patient enough to understand
[14:31] that we're starting from a totally
[14:33] different point.
[14:34] >> And so it sounds like, and I want to
[14:36] make sure I got this right, is it sounds
[14:38] like you kind of figured it out on the
[14:39] job, but you've learned that there's two
[14:41] very different communication styles and
[14:43] you were eager enough to realize that
[14:46] and then also curious enough to learn
[14:48] the other perspective. And then Bridget,
[14:49] is that am I summarizing that right?
[14:51] >> And I enjoyed being the translator. I
[14:54] think finance professionals, the most
[14:56] successful ones that support technology
[14:59] or anything actually nowadays everything
[15:01] is technology is being the translator
[15:04] between your own profession and whoever
[15:06] you're supporting being able to boil
[15:08] down the the the
[15:11] concerns and issues from your profession
[15:13] to a technical person. Um, and being
[15:16] that I call it translator, being able to
[15:18] speak both languages. Um, and it's very
[15:22] it's just practice, right? in being
[15:23] aware of the of the communication
[15:26] difference.
[15:27] >> Yeah, it's fascinating. You hear you
[15:28] hear it all the time. People like to get
[15:30] to the next level, you need to work on
[15:31] your soft skills, but that really the
[15:33] communication is such a challenging
[15:35] place for everyone because it's more
[15:37] than just communication. It's EQ and
[15:38] understanding other people's
[15:39] perspectives, but it's also kind of
[15:41] realizing BS and being able to call BS
[15:44] when you see it. So, I'm I'm curious,
[15:45] you know, we're hearing a lot about AI
[15:47] hype nowadays, and how do you tell or
[15:50] what did you learn to be able to call or
[15:53] signal hype versus substance throughout
[15:56] your career?
[15:57] >> Well, I think you bring up a good point
[15:58] because right now there is a lot of hype
[16:00] and there's still a lot of hype. I
[16:02] think, you know, with if you listen to
[16:05] CNBC, you listen to the news about
[16:07] everybody has to have AI because that is
[16:10] the the future, right? And so everyone's
[16:12] like, "How do I incorporate AI?" And and
[16:15] maybe that's not the right approach,
[16:17] right? Are you solving problems? How can
[16:19] you solve the problems and leverage AI
[16:22] to solve a customer's problem? You
[16:24] should be leading. Um, and I think that
[16:28] to separate that hype to me is pretty
[16:31] clean and clear. It's proof is in the
[16:34] proof is in the pudding. Like there's
[16:36] definitely talk and there's aspiration
[16:39] and there is vision which is great but
[16:42] after a while you're expecting to see
[16:45] progress and analysts are expecting to
[16:48] see progress. So we need to see some
[16:50] some material action and accomplishments
[16:54] and milestones otherwise it's just talk
[16:57] right if you're not seeing any actual
[16:59] progress or benefit from it.
[17:01] >> And when you're saying progress you mean
[17:02] like are you getting customers? are you
[17:04] satisfying their needs? Are they paying
[17:06] customers or
[17:08] >> even even it's like features is what
[17:10] what can you demonstrate right and are
[17:13] showing that you've got the proof of
[17:15] concept done you've got a prototype done
[17:17] we I think everyone understands there's
[17:19] a lot to evolve around AI but you've got
[17:23] to start showing progress um and that's
[17:27] you need to show what all of this money
[17:29] is going towards maybe from a financial
[17:30] perspective um but also as a consumer or
[17:33] a buyer of product uh weeding through
[17:37] the mess. You know, who's been talking
[17:39] about it and who's been actually
[17:40] delivering features and functions and
[17:44] and delivering solutions even if even if
[17:48] they're small, right? That that gives me
[17:50] faith that that it's not just high.
[17:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I to your point on the
[17:54] small solutions. I was talking to
[17:55] someone earlier today who invented the
[17:56] passport technology for um for that
[17:59] science of pass and something like that
[18:01] something as small as you don't even
[18:02] realize it because it scans your
[18:04] passport when you go through TSA is such
[18:06] a huge impact but you actually have to
[18:08] have something there and that works.
[18:10] It's not enough just to have the vision.
[18:11] And you're seeing a lot of that like
[18:13] Devon.ai please give me $100 million,
[18:16] right? Like what do you do? So I I think
[18:18] figuring out that substance and is
[18:20] really important. And what would you say
[18:22] like for other CFOs, what should they do
[18:24] or maybe product finance leaders to
[18:26] prepare for this AI integration at scale
[18:30] or even when they're thinking through
[18:32] acquisitions or building in-house AI
[18:35] technologies?
[18:37] What what are you how would you think
[18:38] about that or what kind of advice would
[18:40] you offer?
[18:41] >> Yeah, I mean I I've thought a lot about
[18:43] that. I think there's two things. One is
[18:45] just the obvious like get yourself
[18:47] educated, right? you you can't even
[18:51] I mean it's it's changing every day. So
[18:54] if we don't keep up and try to continue
[18:56] to keep yourself educated about the
[18:58] topic and what is needed um you're
[19:01] already at a deficit. The second is to
[19:04] me AI is going to be all about the data.
[19:07] Once you automate all of these manual
[19:10] processes and getting data to gather and
[19:13] and eliminate a lot of the manual work
[19:16] um it boils down to data. All of this
[19:18] thing is learning on data. So at the end
[19:21] of the day, your data first needs I kind
[19:23] of thinking about uh you know something
[19:26] catchy like you know three C's. One one
[19:30] is making sure that your data is clean.
[19:34] Most companies data I don't care what
[19:36] size you are the data is garbage right
[19:38] it's inconsistent. So that's the other
[19:39] thing is making sure all of your data is
[19:42] consistent. It's clean and it's
[19:44] consolidated. And that could be you know
[19:48] some people's a lot of smaller companies
[19:50] but not just small companies data is in
[19:52] spreadsheets. So that's what I mean by
[19:54] consolidate. Put it all together and be
[19:56] consistent. Even if the data is not a
[19:59] perfectly clean it's better to be
[20:01] consistent. You can always work with
[20:02] that fix it and and continue to clean
[20:05] because clean is not a thing you do
[20:07] once. So I'm a believer of making sure
[20:10] that you are all around your data
[20:12] getting that cleaned up. it's going to
[20:14] benefit you AI or not. It it's a big
[20:16] need for any way of um being efficient
[20:19] in your business. So, educate yourself
[20:22] and really get your data up to speed
[20:25] because it's going to help on any kind
[20:27] of transition to anything any system
[20:29] better.
[20:30] >> I Well, I love the three C's. That's
[20:31] something I'm going to take away from
[20:32] this. I already learned something really
[20:34] valuable and I think everyone because
[20:35] it's so true and especially if you're in
[20:36] a company that's even done a couple of
[20:38] acquisitions, you
[20:39] >> It sounds It sounds easy. cleaned,
[20:42] consolidated, consistent. But a man is
[20:44] hard in practice, right? It's not easy
[20:46] to get
[20:48] >> super super easy. But I'll tell you,
[20:49] every company has the problem. The
[20:51] larger you are,
[20:53] >> the worse it is, the volume. But if
[20:55] you're small, it's it's still a problem
[20:58] because maybe you don't have the systems
[20:59] and and they're in spreadsheets. But to
[21:02] me, AI, the next problem that most
[21:04] people haven't even thought about yet is
[21:06] AI will get there. I I I'm a firm
[21:08] believer if it's already there in a lot
[21:10] of areas, but it's going to hinge on how
[21:12] good your data is and most people's data
[21:16] is not anywhere near where they need to
[21:18] be even for the systems we have today.
[21:20] >> Yeah. And that goes back to your point
[21:21] on education, right? where if the
[21:23] executive team does isn't aware of what
[21:26] the technology can do and its
[21:27] limitations, you could be sucked into
[21:29] the hype instead of the substance of a
[21:31] technology and then buy it and then not
[21:32] have reap the outcomes that you're
[21:34] thinking because you have this huge data
[21:36] cleanup and
[21:37] >> you didn't plan for the consultants to
[21:39] go actually do the work, right?
[21:40] >> Yeah.
[21:41] >> Cuz that's what's going to cost. I mean,
[21:42] you're going to never have enough
[21:43] resources to do that. You've got to, I
[21:46] call it, just start chipping away at it
[21:48] early because it's going to take time
[21:50] and it's just got to be a it's an
[21:52] everyday thing, right? You don't just
[21:54] clean your house once, right? And you're
[21:56] done, right? So, why would you do that
[21:58] with your data?
[22:00] >> Yeah, you need some long-term vision
[22:01] around there. That's awesome. Well, I
[22:03] want to switch it up a little bit. I
[22:04] really want to dig more into the North
[22:05] Pole marathon because I think personally
[22:08] I you probably don't know this about me,
[22:10] but I was actually homeless when I was
[22:11] 15. Um, and I like overcame a lot. And
[22:15] so I always am inspired by mindset and
[22:18] grit and like what it takes to go
[22:21] through extreme scenarios. And I'm
[22:23] really curious what inspired, you know,
[22:26] you to set this internal challenge at 50
[22:28] plus marathons and going to the North
[22:30] Pole. What what was motivating
[22:32] >> all of that behavior?
[22:34] >> I think even before if it was a marathon
[22:36] or not, I I don't and I guess you don't
[22:39] really know. I think even yourself, you
[22:40] don't really know what's in there. that
[22:42] says I'm I'm goal oriented and that was
[22:45] one of the things that I'm always
[22:46] looking for a challenge. I'm goal I I
[22:49] feel like maybe it's just to prove that
[22:51] I can do things and um so I'm very goal
[22:55] oriented and it just started early on
[22:57] when I kind of got talked into running
[22:59] early on like a friend said, "Oh, I want
[23:02] to have a uh I want some company." So
[23:05] before
[23:05] >> How early How early is this or how young
[23:07] are you when you
[23:08] >> Oh, I would say it's I No, I wasn't
[23:10] that. I was much later in life, uh,
[23:13] almost 40, so late 30s, that I even
[23:15] start running. Um, I'm 56uge or will be
[23:18] I will be 56. But, um, yeah, I had never
[23:22] really run. And I got talked into a
[23:24] friend, come with me to go run and I did
[23:26] that first 5K and I thought I was going
[23:29] to die. I went way too fast. And then my
[23:32] friend said, "Wow, you already did that.
[23:33] You could do a half marathon." I'm like,
[23:36] "What? How do you go from that?" But
[23:38] somehow I'm like, uh, okay. And I think
[23:41] that really is the journey because
[23:43] before I knew it, I was my friends were
[23:46] doing marathons. So, hey, maybe I'll
[23:47] just do one. And then my friend
[23:49] suggested, hey, you've already done, you
[23:52] know, uh, four of the seven continents.
[23:54] Why don't you're almost there. And I
[23:56] thought, you're right, you know, or
[23:58] three of the four. So, I'm like, oh,
[24:00] you're right. I've already halfway, so
[24:01] I'll keep going. And so, it doesn't take
[24:03] much. It was just a little poke. Um, and
[24:06] before I knew it, I had seven continents
[24:08] and I thought, okay, well, what's next?
[24:10] So, I was always asking, what's next?
[24:12] Um, and I think that is per personal and
[24:16] professional, goal driven, and it's
[24:19] always that idea of looking forward to
[24:21] the next thing because it's a challenge,
[24:23] is exciting. Uh, prove to yourself you
[24:26] can do it and um and yeah, so that's
[24:29] what I'm always trying to do. Prove to
[24:31] myself I can do it.
[24:32] >> Well, I love it. I hear two things
[24:34] there. first is this is the power of
[24:36] community, right? Is having someone to
[24:37] push you a little out of your comfort
[24:38] zone, unlock this whole
[24:40] >> world that you weren't even aware of in
[24:41] your earlier 30s, right? And now and now
[24:44] look at what you've accomplished so so
[24:45] fast. It's just amazing. And then the
[24:48] second was the goal orientation of hey,
[24:50] you're never it's more about the journey
[24:52] than the destination. It's like, okay, I
[24:53] did this one. What's the next one?
[24:55] Right.
[24:55] >> Yeah.
[24:56] >> Yeah. And I would say that's what I tell
[24:57] my friends all the time is
[25:00] actually the journey is absolutely the
[25:02] things that I remember the most. It
[25:04] really isn't the actual race. It It's I
[25:07] feel like I've already done it, right?
[25:08] Um it's And of course, all of these
[25:10] things, none of these, just like in
[25:12] business, none of these I'm doing on my
[25:15] own. There's nothing here about by
[25:17] yourself. You don't accomplish anything
[25:19] by yourself. I have a lot of friends
[25:20] that have trained with me over the
[25:22] years. U many miles, many hours, a
[25:25] crackadon in the morning to run with me.
[25:28] Um and family and friends. So, uh you
[25:31] don't do anything alone. You definitely
[25:33] need the help. Um, and it's it's no
[25:35] different in business. You're you're not
[25:37] doing anything by yourself really.
[25:40] >> Well, says, "What else did you learn
[25:42] from this experience on discomfort or
[25:45] resilience or mental discipline? And are
[25:47] there any parallels you drive it to
[25:49] leadership other than the fact that
[25:51] you're all in it together?"
[25:53] >> Yeah, absolutely. The first is you're
[25:55] nothing's done alone, right? Um I think
[25:57] the other thing is um you the old you
[26:01] know it's an old adage about you are
[26:03] stronger than you think right and I
[26:05] think you've experienced that yourself
[26:06] you are stronger than you think you can
[26:09] do things you can dig deeper than you
[26:11] ever thought you could um and you just
[26:14] need to be stretched and actually
[26:15] stretch is is really good and healthy
[26:18] you stretch and then you can stretch a
[26:19] little more and a big part of that is um
[26:24] uh you know they always say pain is
[26:26] temporary and the same thing with an a
[26:29] migration. Pain is temporary and it's
[26:32] planned for the long haul. Um and the
[26:35] more you do it, the more you exercise
[26:36] it, u the more you plan,
[26:39] it's not as painful, right? Or you know
[26:41] it's coming and maybe it's because you
[26:43] know it's how how quickly it's going to
[26:44] get over but you're going to reap the
[26:46] rewards and the benefits that'll go much
[26:48] longer. So
[26:50] >> yeah. Wow. So, it sounds like the
[26:52] discipline and being able to be
[26:54] resilient and know that pain is
[26:57] temporary. Like much of that mindset
[26:59] will also translated well to business
[27:01] when I'm sure I've been in it too where
[27:03] you have an system implementation that
[27:04] takes 3 years longer than the one-year
[27:06] plan date, but you know, hey, it's
[27:08] temporary, right? We can we can still
[27:09] get through this. We can still push
[27:10] through and you need a leader like that
[27:12] at the helm, right?
[27:14] >> Did you notice any change in yourself
[27:16] after like you started doing the
[27:17] marathons and the way you leaded but
[27:20] from before?
[27:21] Yeah, I think it's it I think your
[27:24] personal and your work life, I think
[27:25] they intertwine and one one I would say
[27:28] confidence. Confidence about taking a
[27:31] risk. Uh it's a snowball effect, right?
[27:34] Even if it's small risk when you're
[27:36] young in your career, you take a risk or
[27:39] you ask for that raise or you ask for
[27:41] that role that no one you don't have any
[27:44] experience to have justified you to be
[27:47] in that job and it it pans out. Some do,
[27:50] some don't. And then you do it and you
[27:52] said, "Wow, I figured it out. I had no
[27:54] problem. I learned how to do it." And it
[27:57] it it it starts diminishing the
[27:59] imposttor syndrome, right? Like, "Oh my
[28:01] gosh, I'm here. I don't know what I'm
[28:02] doing." Before you know it, you learn
[28:05] and you get more confident that you can
[28:07] figure it out. You're you're
[28:09] resourceful. You've got friends. You can
[28:11] contact your your resources to help you
[28:14] get through it. Um so I would say in a
[28:16] nutshell confidence um to to go beyond
[28:20] and do really tough things and um it
[28:23] does play right into work. Absolutely.
[28:26] You could say go it's it's not like
[28:28] running a marathon today. That would be
[28:30] worse.
[28:31] >> And I think I think you have such a
[28:33] great observation too of like taking the
[28:35] on these roles is risky and a lot of
[28:37] people don't appreciate they everyone
[28:39] wants the title like oh I want to go be
[28:41] CFO I want to go be VP. But then when
[28:43] you talk to everyone dayto-day like,
[28:45] hey, are you willing to go take a risk
[28:46] on this new company? Are you willing to
[28:47] go uh oh no, I'm comfortable where I'm
[28:49] at. And I think that's exactly what
[28:52] you're saying against is, hey, if you
[28:53] want to grow, just like running the
[28:54] marathons, you got to put yourself in a
[28:56] position where you're going to take some
[28:57] risks and you're going to fail a little.
[28:59] You're going to have some tough times,
[29:00] but that's how you grow, right?
[29:02] >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and Yeah. And you
[29:05] got to be okay with being uncomfortable,
[29:07] right? The old
[29:08] >> Yeah. comfortable with being
[29:11] >> Yeah. True. It's true.
[29:13] Yeah, I I love it. I'm curious uh on
[29:17] looking back, you've accomplished so
[29:19] much and and and it's really motivating
[29:21] to hear like you not just accomplished
[29:23] from just the get-go, but you kind of
[29:24] keep on choosing these new adventures
[29:26] and I'm wondering if there's any
[29:28] professional moment when you look back
[29:29] on an impact that you may were most
[29:31] proud of.
[29:34] >> Yeah, I mean that's always a tough
[29:36] question, right? Um but I think the
[29:38] theme I have is not anyone and since
[29:41] it's anywhere where if it was an
[29:43] employee or a colleague or anyone that
[29:47] and even in personal life that came up
[29:48] and said that you made a difference in
[29:50] their life. I think as you get older
[29:52] that's kind of what you care about is
[29:55] your family, friends, colleagues and
[29:57] that you've helped them in their career,
[29:59] you helped them maybe personally. um
[30:02] that you've made a mark and you've and
[30:04] you've made some a difference in
[30:06] someone. Um and of course in projects
[30:10] hopefully those resonate with you know
[30:13] pushing the business forward. Um but I
[30:16] think it's first and foremost the people
[30:17] that you work with that you you know you
[30:18] felt like um you've helped somebody
[30:21] along the way. So I think all of those
[30:24] even if they're small there's no
[30:25] monumental
[30:27] you know uh project even the little
[30:29] stuff you realize in talking with people
[30:33] actually many years later you're like
[30:35] really I helped I didn't I didn't know
[30:37] that and so um yeah I think those are
[30:40] the most uh impactful things that I
[30:42] cherish the most
[30:44] >> you know and I think that's something
[30:46] that people just don't realize in the
[30:47] moment that I wish more people would
[30:49] realize everyone I've talked to who's
[30:51] been hyper successful like yourself
[30:53] always anchors back on, hey, it's the
[30:55] people that matter. It's not the process
[30:57] or the project or any of that. And the
[30:59] people that get lost in the process or
[31:01] projects, it's important to take a step
[31:03] back and say, hey, how how are the
[31:05] people doing and am I taking care of
[31:07] them? Because that's what's going to
[31:08] stick with you over the years, right?
[31:09] Um, have your personal val values
[31:12] evolved at all alongside this journey?
[31:16] >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think again,
[31:19] when you're young, you're focused on
[31:22] just yourself for sure, cuz you're doing
[31:25] everything you can to you've studied,
[31:28] you're working on your own career,
[31:29] you're you're developing your life,
[31:31] you're worried about your next job, how
[31:33] much money you're making. And what's
[31:36] changed over that time is, and even to
[31:40] today, I would say, is there's things
[31:42] that are more important, different
[31:44] things are more important to me now.
[31:46] It's
[31:47] what I'm doing, who am I working with?
[31:49] Am I learning? Uh, do I really care
[31:52] about the company that I work with and
[31:55] the people that I work with? Um,
[31:57] culture, like I've never thought that
[31:59] about, you know, early in my career when
[32:01] I got a job, I wasn't even thinking
[32:03] about culture. Culture is very important
[32:05] to me now. Like, do I want to work in a
[32:08] culture of of a particular culture or
[32:11] not in in a particular company? I never
[32:14] even thought about culture. And you hear
[32:15] about that all the time, but when you
[32:17] get in an organization, uh, you can
[32:19] either thrive or not. And, you know,
[32:22] it's not good for the company if if
[32:23] you're not in line with that. And so, so
[32:26] I think the things that are important to
[32:27] you have changed have changed for me.
[32:30] Um, and it's not just about, like you
[32:33] said, title and money. Now, you're you
[32:35] still care about those things. I'm not
[32:36] going to uh disagree, but there are
[32:38] other things that are really important.
[32:41] And if they don't all come together, you
[32:43] just you walk away. you're totally fine
[32:45] with walking away from an opportunity if
[32:48] they don't check all the boxes for you.
[32:50] >> Yeah. And it's it's interesting. I I
[32:53] really love that you share that because
[32:54] it's interesting. That's why I made the
[32:55] show in the first place is I was trying
[32:56] to find people who were aligning their
[32:58] ambitions with their personal values.
[33:01] And it seems like that over time the
[33:03] people I found most impressive or people
[33:05] like yourself who had those personal
[33:07] boundaries of here's my crossing point.
[33:10] Here's what I'm trying to do. And if you
[33:11] kind of go over it, then I'll find
[33:13] something else that matches that
[33:15] boundary, right? And and that makes
[33:17] everybody better at when people live by
[33:18] their values, it actually strength
[33:20] strengthens everyone around them, right?
[33:22] Um I'm curious, has there been any other
[33:24] times where you've realized like you've
[33:27] kind of realized intentionally trying to
[33:30] make decisions aligned with your values
[33:31] has paid out paid off or you've taken a
[33:34] risk to do so.
[33:36] >> Yeah. I think um every role that you go
[33:40] into, you don't know until it happens.
[33:42] you take the risk and some of those
[33:44] roles were just not a good alignment and
[33:47] you learn you learn on the and you learn
[33:50] to to ask more probing questions and um
[33:54] so I think every job I would say
[34:00] in the last probably 10 years those are
[34:02] the jobs that I really had focused on
[34:05] making sure my culture aligned with my
[34:07] values. Um but it didn't always used to
[34:10] be that way. So, I I can't say it ever
[34:13] stopped or should stop. I just I I
[34:16] realized I guess in hindsight how it's
[34:18] become more and more important to me
[34:19] over time. And I haven't I think every
[34:24] role is a risk. You go into every role
[34:26] going, "This role might be less or more
[34:30] money uh or sacrificing some of these
[34:34] other things because I think I'm just
[34:36] going to thrive in this." So I I don't
[34:38] think I've been perfect by any means,
[34:40] but so I look at every role as a roast
[34:42] and I wouldn't say anymore. I was, you
[34:45] know, a cliffhanger. Like this job I
[34:47] just took half. And I think maybe when I
[34:49] was younger, you you're it sounds all
[34:52] good now. I I get it. But when you're
[34:55] younger, you can't necessarily early on
[34:57] have until you get some experience in
[34:59] those roles, you can't be so choosy,
[35:01] right? Um as you kind of get yourself
[35:03] set up and put yourself in position
[35:05] where you can turn down jobs. There's
[35:07] times in economies where you know, hey,
[35:09] you need a job. So, you do it, but then
[35:11] you move on when when a better role here
[35:14] is is better aligned with.
[35:17] >> Yeah. And there's something too being
[35:19] the stable employee who, you know, you
[35:21] want to go in and if you're going to
[35:22] give if you're going to join something,
[35:23] give it your full effort. But I also do
[35:25] realize there's so many people if there
[35:27] is a misalignment and they don't
[35:30] articulate it or they don't make a
[35:32] position move, it's actually worse for
[35:34] the organization because it's like, hey,
[35:36] if you're not happy here and you're
[35:37] going to gossip or have a tough time
[35:38] because you're not matching with the
[35:40] culture, it's better. You're going to
[35:42] find something. You know, most if you if
[35:44] you've moved forward in your career,
[35:44] you're going to find something. And it's
[35:46] going to help the organization as a
[35:47] whole, too, to get you out of there
[35:48] because it's not a good fit for them
[35:49] either. Even if you're doing a great
[35:51] job, it's going to cause more problems,
[35:52] right?
[35:53] >> Yeah. And it's hard. Culture is a really
[35:55] soft thing. I mean, I think recruiters
[35:58] and and the interview processes are so
[36:01] long now that I think that is addressing
[36:04] a lot of the potential culture mismatch.
[36:08] Um, but it didn't used to always be that
[36:09] way. It didn't I mean, now some of these
[36:11] interview processes are almost to a
[36:13] fault. Um, but I I I would say I in some
[36:16] ways I'm I'm learning to embrace how
[36:18] long some of these uh uh interview
[36:21] processes because of this culture,
[36:24] getting a true sense of what that
[36:25] culture fit is. Um, so you know, I guess
[36:29] time will tell how how successful, but
[36:32] there is a fine line between
[36:35] what the the company says their culture
[36:37] is to what they really are. that that's
[36:39] a very there's there's an aspirational
[36:42] culture and then there's the real
[36:43] culture and I think that's the tough
[36:45] part is doing your homework about maybe
[36:48] finding people that are in that company
[36:50] such that you can really get the true
[36:52] scoop.
[36:53] >> Yeah. And then in a company even at
[36:55] different PAs or product areas could
[36:56] have different cultures, different teams
[36:58] could have different you really and
[37:00] something that stuck with me is I met a
[37:02] person who used to be a senior director
[37:03] at PWC who joined Google and then quit
[37:06] after one month and he was like it's not
[37:07] a fit for me. I'm gonna find and I
[37:09] remember respecting that person that
[37:10] they were able to figure that in out
[37:12] once they got in and took that risk to
[37:14] step out right away. And I remember that
[37:16] leaving a lasting impression of so
[37:17] there's something to it right of
[37:19] sometimes you're just not going to know
[37:20] and it's better to figure it out sooner
[37:21] rather than later. Um really helpful
[37:24] advice. I'm curious what would you
[37:26] recommend to any rising finance leader
[37:28] right now? any any what would be your
[37:30] biggest piece of advice or takeaway in
[37:33] this season especially around
[37:34] transformation of and all these new
[37:37] technologies and the economic and
[37:39] political uncertainty.
[37:41] Yeah, I think um
[37:44] I mean I think I've heard a number of um
[37:47] analysts and stuff that I've talked with
[37:49] that they're just worried like just in
[37:51] general worried about everything. And um
[37:54] I think I maybe over the years having a
[37:57] career over many years where you know es
[38:00] and flows you've been laid off and we've
[38:02] all been laid off and you just have to
[38:04] be comfortable with transition and
[38:06] change and but the the key here is
[38:10] prepare yourself such that you can take
[38:13] risks right if you're a good finance
[38:15] person you had your bet on risk. So
[38:18] yeah, it's a risk, but is it a risk if
[38:20] you've prepared if it doesn't go well?
[38:22] Or you can be out of a job a little
[38:25] longer to pick the right one for you,
[38:27] right? So there's ways of hedging your
[38:29] bet as well as making sure your skill
[38:31] sets are very diverse and that you're
[38:34] willing to take some risk of some
[38:36] companies. You're not going to be truly
[38:38] fulfilled if you don't take those risks
[38:40] because it takes it gets more difficult
[38:42] as you get older to take risks. uh if
[38:44] you have a family and you know you don't
[38:47] you haven't been able to to um you know
[38:50] do some of the things that you need to
[38:51] do and obligations as you get older. Um
[38:54] but the the key here is hed your bet on
[38:57] risk um so that you can be in a position
[39:00] of taking risk and to be in a position
[39:02] where you can be choosy. Um but also you
[39:04] got to add value, right? Any company
[39:07] that you're going to go to it it's it's
[39:10] also about what you're offering them.
[39:12] There's a two-way street here. It's not
[39:13] just what they can offer you, but what
[39:15] are you what is your value to that
[39:17] company? And so work on uh wherever you
[39:19] are. There's usually lots of training
[39:21] programs. And I find as a rule of thumb,
[39:24] most of the uh early career folks are
[39:27] not taking advantage of all the free
[39:29] training that they can take. Um, and yet
[39:31] that's not a guarantee for anything, but
[39:33] what it does do is just help you become
[39:36] well-rounded and probably help with u
[39:38] more value add to whatever prospective
[39:42] company you go to.
[39:43] >> Yeah, that that's great. Something I
[39:45] always tell people is scope is for
[39:46] teams, not for people. Like you should
[39:48] be learning everything. Even if you're
[39:50] an accountant or finance person, try to
[39:51] learn everything.
[39:52] >> And the more you learn, the more you
[39:54] earn. That's generally that rule tends
[39:56] to work, right? So just keep doing it
[39:57] just because you're out of college.
[39:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm with you. I'm with
[40:01] you 100% there. And that's that's sage
[40:02] advice. Um, I'm curious. I know we're
[40:04] running close on time and I want to talk
[40:06] to you for really I could talk to you
[40:07] forever, but I want to respect your
[40:08] time. Um, I'm cur I'll try to go through
[40:10] these ones kind of quick. I'll add some
[40:11] fun ones in the middle, too. Uh, this
[40:13] more like a lightning round and then
[40:14] I'll have a closing section for I would
[40:16] love to hear about where where you're
[40:17] going in the future. Um, first is what's
[40:19] one AI misconception in finance that
[40:22] you'd like to retire?
[40:24] H I'm just so tired of hearing we're all
[40:27] going to all of our jobs are going away
[40:29] and we'll have nothing to do. That
[40:31] that's a total misconception. Um
[40:33] hopefully it will automate and eliminate
[40:36] a lot of things, but we have as a
[40:38] finance profession have so many things
[40:40] that we haven't begun to do. So that
[40:43] that's that's a total misconception.
[40:45] >> Yeah, that's great. Have a a favorite
[40:47] book or quote that shaped your
[40:49] leadership style?
[40:51] >> Yes, I would say a quote. I I'm not sure
[40:53] who who to to give acknowledgement to,
[40:55] but never let um best be the evil of
[40:59] better.
[41:01] >> That's really good. That's true.
[41:03] Sometimes analysis paralysis, right?
[41:05] Sometimes you just got to move.
[41:06] >> Uh
[41:07] >> yes.
[41:08] >> What's harder to explain ARR to
[41:10] engineers or going to the North Pole to
[41:13] run a marathon to your family?
[41:16] >> The family. The engineers. They got
[41:18] this. The They're like, "What? What?
[41:20] They don't understand that." Yeah,
[41:23] engineers get it.
[41:25] >> Do you have any other extreme races
[41:27] planned
[41:28] >> for the near future?
[41:29] >> Not planned, but always have been
[41:32] thinking about there's a company called
[41:35] RunBuck and they have seven continents
[41:39] in seven days.
[41:41] Seven continents in seven days. A
[41:44] marathon. And
[41:45] >> a marathon each day.
[41:47] >> Yes. Actually, I have friends that have
[41:49] that have completed it. Seven marathons.
[41:51] seven days. That's one of the ones that
[41:53] I've always thought about. Um that would
[41:57] be kind of cool. It would be kind of
[41:58] cool to challenge yourself.
[41:59] >> Oh, if you did that and put a charity
[42:01] behind it, I would donate. That sounds
[42:02] amazing. You know,
[42:05] >> it's a little pricey for me, but uh but
[42:07] yeah, it's a challenge that I
[42:10] I'd be a game for.
[42:13] >> Respect. Respect. Um Okay. And then just
[42:16] for a fun, do you like sweet or savory
[42:18] better?
[42:21] Sweet for sure. Sweet toast. Not a
[42:23] sweet.
[42:23] >> And what what's your favorite dessert?
[42:26] >> Dessert. How about just like candy? I
[42:30] just like
[42:32] uh Do you know bit of honey candy?
[42:35] >> Oh yeah, that stuff's great. Yeah, that
[42:38] stuff's delicious.
[42:38] >> I'm an old schooler. I'm an old
[42:40] schooler. So I have a I have a that and
[42:42] gummy bears. Isn't that ridiculous? It's
[42:45] the sugar. It's my 5-year-old daughter's
[42:47] like that's all she wants is like those
[42:49] little lollipops, the Dum Dums and the
[42:51] and the gummy bears and I eat them
[42:53] sometimes like man these are perfect.
[42:54] It's perfect. Exactly.
[42:55] >> I think they're just I think it's the
[42:56] idea of just pure sugar is what I'm
[42:58] looking for.
[42:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. So,
[43:02] where can people connect with you and um
[43:05] learn more about what you're doing?
[43:07] >> Uh LinkedIn. I think that's it's a great
[43:10] great tool. Uh just Melissa Kander. I
[43:13] don't know that there's that many.
[43:15] Um, and yeah, and I think I you'll know
[43:18] it's me because I posted about my North
[43:20] Pole Mar. So, you'll see it.
[43:22] >> Great. I'll put your link uh attached to
[43:24] the show. And then what what's your
[43:26] plan? What's up next for you, Melissa?
[43:28] What are you what are you trying to
[43:29] accomplish next and what's on the
[43:30] horizon?
[43:32] >> Well, I'm looking for the next uh CFO
[43:35] opportunity. And again, a lot of the
[43:38] things that we talked about today is
[43:40] making sure that I find the right
[43:43] culture fit. I'm excited about the
[43:46] product and people and something that's
[43:49] going to challenge me and fulfill me for
[43:51] my next role. And if it hits those
[43:53] boxes, I'm there.
[43:55] >> Well, any organization is going to be
[43:56] lucky to have you and any team that you
[43:58] go lead, uh, that's going to be exciting
[43:59] for them. So, best of luck on your
[44:02] search. And maybe for a final word, what
[44:04] would you say to a finance leader who's
[44:06] overwhelmed by the speed of AI and
[44:08] everything going on and doesn't know
[44:09] where to begin or what to do right now?
[44:12] What's a piece of encouraging advice you
[44:13] could give them as a takeaway?
[44:15] >> Well, I I would say I think most of the
[44:18] time that they're feeling overwhelmed
[44:19] because they feel like they're behind.
[44:21] Um, and I would say don't feel behind at
[44:24] all. I think um sure all the engineers
[44:27] are way ahead of us, no doubt. But I
[44:29] would say all the finance professionals,
[44:31] we're all about the same place. We're
[44:33] this isn't it's okay. You're not behind.
[44:36] But time is now to get on board and
[44:39] start learning. And there's so many free
[44:42] classes. I think Harvard Business Review
[44:44] or Harvard has got some online free
[44:47] classes. I'm actually taking a cyber
[44:48] security class there. Um doing
[44:51] everything I can to keep keep up to
[44:53] speed. Um but there's companies like
[44:55] even Salesforce that's got free courses.
[44:58] So, just snatch all those up. Learn as
[45:01] much as you can. Um,
[45:04] don't be intimidated. Um, you're not
[45:06] behind. I think that's usually why
[45:07] they're intimidated. They're thinking,
[45:08] "I'm so behind." No, you're we're all a
[45:11] little behind. So, this is the time to
[45:13] get on board.
[45:15] >> Well, that's great advice, Melissa. I
[45:17] really appreciate you coming on. It was
[45:18] really a pleasure getting to meet you
[45:19] and know you better. And hopefully after
[45:21] you land your next big role, hopefully
[45:23] we can catch up again and touch base and
[45:25] see what's going on. And if you do that
[45:26] seven continent race or what's up next
[45:28] for the docket. So
[45:29] >> I appreciate you.