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Video ID: J2YPtYEX570
Language: en
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[0:00] It didn't start out as just building a
[0:02] business. We're building a place where
[0:04] great people could do great work and
[0:07] enjoy doing it.
[0:07] >> Hire slow, find the right people. If
[0:09] there needs to be changes, you make it
[0:11] fast, which is not easy and takes a lot
[0:13] of leadership.
[0:13] >> When we first starting, it was
[0:15] successful to me just to get our own
[0:19] project and not be with someone else.
[0:21] Clients weren't just coming to us for
[0:23] extra hands, like actual strategic
[0:26] guidance.
[0:26] >> Hi everyone. On this episode of Ambition
[0:28] Aligned, Ryan and Aaron, my good friends
[0:30] and co-founders of Principal Consulting
[0:32] Group, share how they built a firm
[0:34] around people, not just profits. From
[0:36] late night talks to leading a fast
[0:38] growing advisoring firm, if you care
[0:40] about building a team the right way,
[0:42] this one's worth your time. Hey guys,
[0:44] thanks so much for coming today. I would
[0:46] love for everyone to get to know you all
[0:48] a little better.
[0:49] >> We'll start with a few introductions
[0:50] about ourselves. Hey everyone, I'm In.
[0:52] I'm one of the co-founders of Principal
[0:54] Consulting Group. Quick background
[0:57] started my career in audit at Deote in
[1:00] San Jose transitioned into accounting
[1:02] reported advisory eventually met Ryan
[1:05] and co-ounded PCG before PCG I started
[1:09] my career in public accounting KPMG
[1:12] provided a great foundation working with
[1:16] large complex clients across a lot of
[1:18] different industries
[1:20] after that I moved into an industry role
[1:22] where I worked closely with kind of the
[1:24] day-to-day operations s financial
[1:26] reporting strategic initiatives.
[1:29] After that went back into consulting
[1:32] where me and Aaron met and decided after
[1:35] many late night conversations to start
[1:37] PCG together. And I think that that
[1:40] experience across the big firm, the
[1:42] small firm, the industry has really
[1:45] shaped a lot of what we're doing today
[1:48] at BCG. I think everyone would love to
[1:51] learn more about what were those late
[1:52] night conversations and how did you all
[1:54] decide to go stick it out on your own. I
[1:57] think that's fascinating.
[1:58] >> Yeah, we met while working together at a
[2:00] prior firm as I mentioned. What stood
[2:02] out immediately to me was how aligned we
[2:05] were. I think that still is true today
[2:08] but not just in terms of work ethic but
[2:11] in how we thought about client service
[2:14] problem solving kind of team culture.
[2:17] Over time, we kept circling back to the
[2:19] same idea and I think we said why don't
[2:22] we try and build something more agile,
[2:24] more collaborative. Eventually, the
[2:26] timing was just right and we decided to
[2:29] take the leap. It didn't start out as
[2:31] just building a business. We were
[2:33] building a place where great people
[2:36] could do great work and enjoy doing it.
[2:39] >> Just to tack on to that, I think the
[2:41] heart of it was
[2:43] we really enjoy working together. And I
[2:47] remember at first we were talking about,
[2:49] hey, we'll go to another firm together
[2:51] as like a package deal, take both of us
[2:54] or neither of us. But the more we
[2:57] thought about it, the vision was to
[3:00] create a place that would attract the
[3:03] type of people
[3:04] we want to work with. You know,
[3:06] >> it's great that you started around a
[3:07] vision. I so many businesses don't.
[3:09] They're just looking to make some money.
[3:10] And interesting thing about the
[3:11] accounting profession is you guys were
[3:12] already making money, right? And so
[3:15] doing something like this was more of a
[3:16] passion or leaning into a valuesbased
[3:19] system, which is really cool. But I'm
[3:21] curious, what did that first 6 months
[3:23] look like? That's a huge change to go
[3:25] from making salary and just billing
[3:28] hours and hoping to get your bonus to
[3:29] going out doing your own thing. What was
[3:31] that first 6 months like?
[3:33] >> I think that first 6 months was a mix of
[3:36] excitement,
[3:38] uncertainty, a lot of problem solving, a
[3:40] lot of late nights. We were wearing
[3:43] every hat, selling work, delivering it,
[3:46] building the brand, setting up
[3:47] infrastructure, just setting things out
[3:49] the way we want. It was also that first
[3:53] 6 months that we were fortunate to land
[3:56] great clients early on, but that also
[3:58] meant we had to scale up quickly and
[4:00] make decisions fast. I think we hired
[4:02] our first employee within the first 6
[4:04] months. One of the biggest early lessons
[4:08] was that relationships matter more than
[4:11] anything. The trust we had built over
[4:13] the years opened doors and delivering
[4:16] quality from day one continued to keep
[4:19] those doors open. Um, so I think we we
[4:23] kind of leaned into what made us
[4:24] different being nimble, the drive to do
[4:28] good work, figure things out and problem
[4:29] solve and the collaboration we had.
[4:31] >> Yeah. I just thinking back to the first
[4:33] 6 months, a lot of lessons,
[4:37] a lot of mistakes, but I think we've
[4:40] slowly learned from them, improved over
[4:42] time for sure. Remember our first pitch
[4:44] didn't go very well, and then we
[4:47] stumbled across our old PowerPoint that
[4:49] we used.
[4:51] >> Well, what I'm hearing there is you guys
[4:52] had a bias for action, though, right?
[4:53] You went all in, even if you didn't have
[4:55] all your ducks in a row. You got to
[4:57] figure out your timing and you led with,
[5:00] hey, you had a good idea and you cared
[5:01] about the people and doing a good job.
[5:03] The rest will figure itself out and a
[5:05] bit of it did with the hard work put
[5:07] behind it. It sounds like, right?
[5:08] >> Yep. Definitely.
[5:10] >> When did you guys know that it was going
[5:12] to be successful? Like in that first 6
[5:14] months, was there a moment where you
[5:15] guys were like, "Hey,
[5:16] >> our definition of success has
[5:19] continually evolved since we started."
[5:22] When we first started, it was successful
[5:26] to me just to get our own project and
[5:30] not be working for someone else, even if
[5:33] we never ended up hiring anyone. And I
[5:36] can still remember starting and in
[5:39] imagining, wow, what would it be like to
[5:41] have a five or six person firm?
[5:45] I can't even imagine.
[5:48] And I remember thinking on every point
[5:50] along the way once we got to 60 people,
[5:53] wow, I can't imagine what it'd be like
[5:56] to have a 15 or 20 person firm. It
[6:00] really was a dream more than like a
[6:02] concrete goal. As as we continue to grow
[6:07] and build and be successful, it's
[6:12] definitely given me more courage to
[6:15] dream bigger and have more faith that
[6:18] we're capable of achieving those goals
[6:20] and dreams. When we started out, it's
[6:22] like, hey, if we find our own client,
[6:24] great. Anything else is great. Yeah, I
[6:28] think the moment
[6:30] I wouldn't say we realized it was going
[6:31] to work in the first 6 months. probably
[6:33] didn't realize it in the first year, but
[6:36] thinking back, it was probably a year
[6:37] and a half in where there was a moment
[6:40] we were working on multiple projects
[6:42] with some large clients. Had this
[6:45] realization that we weren't just getting
[6:47] work, clients weren't just coming to us
[6:49] for extra hands, but actual strategic
[6:52] guidance. They trusted us to solve some
[6:54] of their most complex problems, and
[6:56] they're referring us to others. I think
[6:58] that was kind of the the point where I
[7:00] was like, man, we've we've got something
[7:02] here. It was clear we were building
[7:04] something that had value.
[7:07] >> Did the vision change at all throughout
[7:09] the last 5 years? Went through those
[7:10] different stages of employees and
[7:12] building something here or has it
[7:13] stayed, okay, doing good work with good
[7:16] people and prioritizing relationships?
[7:18] >> Yeah, I'd say yes and no. Our core
[7:21] values, I don't think they've changed
[7:24] and I hope they never do. Um but our
[7:27] visions for you know the future. Yeah. I
[7:31] think we were initially very lean,
[7:34] hands-on, scrappy. It was us and a
[7:37] couple trusted colleagues, clear mission
[7:40] to deliver the quality. I'd be the kind
[7:43] of partners we always wished we had.
[7:44] Those are still some of the clear
[7:47] mission we have. I guess as we grew, the
[7:50] scale and vision has grown as well.
[7:53] We've expanded our capabilities not in
[7:57] just technical accounting but beyond it
[7:59] including data analytics systems process
[8:01] automation and we've built a team of
[8:04] incredible professionals that have
[8:06] matured into a fullervice advisory firm
[8:08] which I don't think we initially had
[8:11] that vision but as Aaron said what
[8:13] hasn't changed is the mindset you know
[8:15] everyone kind of still acts like owners
[8:17] stay close to the work put relationships
[8:19] and quality first
[8:21] >> I mean that's it's It's fascinating that
[8:24] I've met so many entrepreneurs who
[8:25] define their core values after starting
[8:27] the business and years that stay true.
[8:29] What would you say were some challenges
[8:33] or ways that you're approaching keeping
[8:35] that quality and that culture while you
[8:37] scale?
[8:37] >> Cuz I know it's a big challenge for a
[8:39] lot of people like it's easy when you're
[8:40] a small group of people to all have the
[8:42] same vision and as you grow out it's
[8:44] challenging to keep the same quality.
[8:46] How are you navigating all that as a
[8:47] team?
[8:49] >> 100%. I think it's been one of the
[8:53] biggest challenges
[8:56] and it meant investing heavily in really
[8:59] hiring the right people. People who not
[9:01] only had a strong technical background
[9:04] but also aligned very much with our
[9:07] values and our approach. I think we also
[9:10] focused on building repeatable processes
[9:13] so the teams could deliver consistently
[9:16] without trying to reinvent the wheel
[9:17] every time. I think as I mentioned
[9:19] earlier, we still stay very close to the
[9:22] work. It's not about choosing between
[9:24] quality and scale. If it's designed
[9:27] correctly within the firm, we don't have
[9:29] to focus on the people and the culture.
[9:34] So,
[9:35] >> something I've seen being with you guys
[9:36] is how good the culture is and how much
[9:38] you focus on hiring the right people and
[9:40] making sure there's that fit. You hire
[9:41] slow, find the right people, and if
[9:44] there needs to be changes, you make it
[9:45] fast, which is not easy and takes a lot
[9:47] of leadership. Has there been any times
[9:49] that had major inflection points where
[9:51] you noticed that the firm kind of took
[9:53] off positively or negatively? And how
[9:55] have you navigated that through these
[9:57] seasons?
[9:57] >> I can say off the top of my head there
[9:59] are a few. I think one of the biggest
[10:01] was landing a major client that trusted
[10:05] us with a high visible high stakes
[10:07] engagement that put us on the map kind
[10:10] of validated our approach. Another was
[10:14] when we really started investing in the
[10:16] automation and analytics capabilities
[10:19] that opened the door to bigger more
[10:21] strategic projects and really set us
[10:24] apart from some of the other firms out
[10:25] there. We've also had our challenges.
[10:28] Those are two good inflection points. I
[10:30] think some of the tough one was when we
[10:32] grew faster than we were really
[10:34] operationally ready for. It made us take
[10:36] a step back and build that more scalable
[10:39] infrastructure. It was definitely
[10:42] painful at the time, but it made us more
[10:45] mature and resilient going forward.
[10:48] There's been a lot of inflection points,
[10:49] good or bad, and each one has pushed us
[10:52] to grow in ways we couldn't have or
[10:55] wouldn't have planned for, but it's part
[10:57] of what makes the journey so rewarding.
[11:02] >> Yeah. And you guys navigated such a
[11:04] complex the last 5 years have not been
[11:06] the most stable from an economic
[11:08] perspective to what we went through co
[11:11] and then all the election cycle. It's
[11:13] been an early that's strength resilience
[11:16] strength for a company.
[11:17] >> It is. You talked about the team earlier
[11:19] and what we built at this point and
[11:21] everyone's like man there's so much M&A
[11:23] activity in in the space. Why don't you
[11:25] guys sell it? You could probably do this
[11:26] again in a few years. It's like, no, I
[11:29] don't know if we could build what we've
[11:30] done today and get the collection of
[11:32] people that we have today. It is pretty
[11:34] cool.
[11:35] >> Was there any systems or anything you
[11:36] guys relied on when you're kind of
[11:38] working out the nuts and bolts for the
[11:39] audience? You know, starting your own
[11:41] thing, figuring out things like payroll,
[11:43] closing the books, making sure the
[11:44] lights stay on and make sure you're
[11:46] using the right banking partners and
[11:47] making sure all that takes a lot of
[11:49] time, right? It takes a lot more while
[11:52] you're trying to still work in your
[11:53] business. You're trying to run your
[11:54] business. was there any advice you have
[11:57] for other entrepreneurs that made it
[11:58] easy or did you have to learn along the
[12:00] way? I mean, fortunately, we're
[12:03] accountants, so
[12:05] we got a leg up on, you know, someone
[12:08] who's used to this stuff starting
[12:10] business. But honestly, I think there's
[12:14] a lot of just cheap accessible small
[12:17] business web- based tools that automate
[12:21] a lot of the mundane stuff that really
[12:24] helped. So
[12:27] even just the basics like QuickBooks, we
[12:29] use Gusto stuff like that make life a
[12:33] little easier.
[12:36] Yeah, finding those systems for the
[12:39] areas that the accountants don't want to
[12:41] deal with HR, payroll, some of the
[12:43] people side of things. Standardize that
[12:46] made things easier. But a lot of it is
[12:49] going back to building processes and
[12:52] playbooks and being able to help deliver
[12:55] consistently and let people focus on
[12:57] what they need to be focusing on and not
[12:59] dealing with the HR stuff, the
[13:00] insurance, the benefits, making sure
[13:03] that's all taken care of.
[13:05] >> Yeah, that makes sense. So with that,
[13:08] what's changed in your leadership? I'm
[13:10] curious over the last five years, what
[13:11] has changed for yourselves and how are
[13:14] you intentionally building your culture
[13:16] today?
[13:24] Thinking back to the inflection points
[13:26] when we started out, it was all about
[13:29] how can you get our next client and
[13:32] execute on the project and throw in, oh
[13:35] crap, we need to go hire someone
[13:37] yesterday because we're, you know,
[13:39] cranking 80our weeks.
[13:42] We definitely hit some inflection
[13:43] points. I remember how weird it felt
[13:46] when we realized
[13:48] we were no longer personally touching
[13:51] every single engagement. Ryan and Honey
[13:54] were personally overseeing every
[13:56] billable hour. We had our hands on the
[13:59] client work. We could step in and take
[14:02] over that went wrong. Getting to the
[14:05] point where we start losing that
[14:08] visibility was a huge mental shift where
[14:12] we needed to start focusing on
[14:16] developing our team, trusting them to
[14:21] deliver the same level of quality that
[14:25] we would and as mentioned building those
[14:28] processes that are going to ensure
[14:32] the quality and the relationships and
[14:34] everything that we want to happen is
[14:36] happening. That was a big mental shift
[14:38] and I think we're continually going
[14:40] through that as we grow just the
[14:43] different problems we face along the
[14:46] journey and things we need to learn and
[14:48] and focus on. But that's been an ever
[14:52] growing focus. How do we develop the
[14:54] team and build out these processes
[14:56] versus doing the day job part?
[15:01] One of the hardest things of being a
[15:02] leader is leading other leaders or
[15:04] developing future leaders, right? And
[15:06] getting out of the business itself and
[15:08] trusting those leaders to run it and
[15:10] being able to take on the risk tolerance
[15:11] of leaders make mistakes. And that's
[15:14] never Yeah. And so it sounds like you
[15:16] build processes around that and that's a
[15:18] big learning, right, of how to trust
[15:20] those people and build the processes
[15:21] around it to enable them to succeed.
[15:23] >> But on the flip side, I'll just add if
[15:25] you hire really good people, it makes it
[15:27] a lot easier than it would be otherwise.
[15:29] So, what's been your secret there?
[15:30] >> I was going to say, yeah, I think we do
[15:32] have a great team. I think I mean, going
[15:34] back similar to one of the biggest
[15:36] mistakes was just trying to stay too
[15:39] close to everything for too long. I
[15:40] think we thought being hands-on was the
[15:43] best way to protect kind of the quality,
[15:45] but in reality, it created a lot of
[15:47] bottlenecks and slowdowns and slowed
[15:50] down team development. I think it took a
[15:53] while to realize leadership wasn't about
[15:56] doing everything yourself. It's about
[15:57] others to lead. Once we figured that out
[16:00] and made things better and more
[16:02] scalable, right?
[16:05] >> Yeah. It's fascinating. My time at
[16:06] Google, you saw the difference between a
[16:08] strong leader and a not strong leader
[16:09] wasn't their technical competency. It
[16:11] was do they trust their team? And the
[16:13] people who didn't trust their team would
[16:14] burn themselves out pretty fast cuz they
[16:16] get their finger in every bucket. And
[16:18] when you're managing 100 people, you get
[16:19] in trouble pretty fast doing that. So,
[16:21] you've brought up a few times like,
[16:23] "Hey, hiring great people makes this
[16:26] easier."
[16:27] But I think everyone would pay you guys
[16:29] just as experts if you could tell
[16:31] everyone how to hire good people because
[16:33] that's not an easy process to vet and
[16:35] sure you got good people then retain
[16:37] them. What's your secret or what do you
[16:39] think has led to your success there?
[16:41] >> Yeah, there's a lot there. You know,
[16:44] part of it
[16:46] almost just goes back to how we started
[16:48] in the values, right? Like
[16:51] I can remember when Ryan and Ed we were
[16:54] at another firm you know we were at one
[16:58] point we worked you know I talked to
[17:01] over 100 bill hours in a week we were
[17:03] Ubering to and from the client's office
[17:06] it wasn't safe to drive they're trying
[17:08] to flip public just utter chaos love
[17:13] working with Ryan on a single time that
[17:16] I see them treat disrespect or I snap it
[17:19] then or
[17:22] just like create other firms or teams at
[17:26] the instant there's that negative
[17:29] response frustration it breaks down the
[17:33] team dynamic quickly and you know that
[17:35] that was a big part like why I want to
[17:37] keep working with this guy right
[17:40] and
[17:42] you know there are a lot of lessons I
[17:45] tried to observe and learn from during
[17:48] my time at delaying
[17:50] other firms like what
[17:54] worked well and looked in in terms of
[17:56] keeping people happy and building good
[17:59] teams. Some of the most successful teams
[18:02] I was on attracted people to them
[18:05] because of the positive environments.
[18:08] They have fun together, you know, they
[18:10] enjoy it was people that you want to be
[18:13] friends with outside of work, right? It
[18:16] really felt like
[18:18] the existing model at big four and a lot
[18:22] of other firms just felt broken in a lot
[18:24] of ways with
[18:26] the bureaucracy, the pay structure,
[18:30] the amount they were paying. You know,
[18:32] it's gotten a little better since then
[18:34] or even just the growth opportunities.
[18:37] You know, elevate yourself and take on
[18:39] more challenges if you're ready, right?
[18:41] versus a very very strict hierarchical
[18:44] structure. These are some examples, but
[18:48] we really put a lot of into creating an
[18:51] environment that attracts high
[18:53] performers, people that
[18:56] aren't satisfied with the status quo and
[18:59] you're going to leave one of those other
[19:01] organizations for something better. ing.
[19:03] I want to create a place where they feel
[19:06] like the enchantment
[19:08] is, you know, as good as we can make it
[19:12] for them, right? Whether that's career
[19:15] growth opportunities, flexibility,
[19:19] the comp structure, you know,
[19:21] opportunities to
[19:24] work on the business itself or get into
[19:27] new areas, whatever we can do to create
[19:29] that environment.
[19:31] And then we kind of make critical mass
[19:34] at a certain point where we have this
[19:36] cool culture in one team and it's cool
[19:40] when people come someone starts and it's
[19:43] just this positive feedback loop where
[19:45] you can feel all the good vibes right
[19:47] and you want to be a part of it. So
[19:51] I don't know if that's a very scientific
[19:54] answer.
[19:54] >> So what I'm hearing from you is that you
[19:56] screen for people that are positive and
[19:59] encouraging. It sounds like future
[20:01] leaders. You're screening for people
[20:03] rather than just finding headcount.
[20:05] You're trying to find people that you
[20:06] would want to actually work on the team.
[20:08] I've been in the industry long enough
[20:09] and there's a lot of jerks where as you
[20:11] move up, you just kind of hammer down on
[20:13] the staff and take your title and maybe
[20:16] stop adding value. Since I've joined,
[20:18] I've definitely noticed how uplifting
[20:21] and positive everyone is in the firm,
[20:22] which is pretty unique. I haven't met
[20:24] anybody who has any kind of negative
[20:27] connotation or discussion or gossip. all
[20:29] that stuff seems to be kind of squashed
[20:31] unless it's in jets or for fun which is
[20:33] really abnormal and really cool that
[20:34] you've done that and it's interesting
[20:35] you did it from a person so like it was
[20:37] intentional like you're hiring kind of a
[20:39] personality screening almost of hey are
[20:42] you going to be able to come in here do
[20:43] good work but also be positive and have
[20:45] fun with it
[20:46] >> I also believe a big piece is just the
[20:49] environment you could take someone and
[20:51] throw them into a negative environment
[20:52] to rub off on that and same thing here
[20:56] hopefully when people join we want them
[20:59] to come into this positive environment,
[21:01] let's seed off of it.
[21:02] >> Ryan, any additional thoughts there?
[21:05] >> I think it was well said. We've always
[21:07] tried to hire those people that are
[21:09] curious, accountable, and genuinely care
[21:12] about the impact they have. with the
[21:14] values we've talked about already being
[21:16] transparent and creating a space for
[21:19] people to really lead. I think we've
[21:22] instilled that structure including clear
[21:24] feedback and standards and mindset going
[21:27] forward.
[21:28] >> I'm curious too, something I've observed
[21:29] is you all do a really good job. Every
[21:31] company I've seen talks about, oh, we
[21:33] have the hard conversations or we'll be
[21:35] transparent, but in reality, most people
[21:39] have those behind closed doors and they
[21:40] aren't transparent. They don't give
[21:41] great feedback to people. There's
[21:43] something about the culture of the team
[21:44] that they do. Everyone does a really
[21:45] good job of being straight with each
[21:47] other in respectful ways. Like, hey, by
[21:48] the way, we could have done this better
[21:49] next time. It feels safe. They create a
[21:51] safe space for people to be like, "Hey,
[21:53] can we do this better? Or have you
[21:54] thought of this?" The feedback's never
[21:55] rejected, right? It's kind of just,
[21:57] "Yeah, this or hey, you might have some
[21:59] healthy discourse there." What did you
[22:00] do to intentionally build the safe space
[22:02] to have intellectual discourse?
[22:06] Yeah, I think it comes down to the
[22:08] culture again and the high performance,
[22:10] high trust that we've got at its core,
[22:14] empowering people to take ownership of
[22:15] their work and collaborate. I think it's
[22:18] also been a very open
[22:21] collaboration and team. I think
[22:24] everybody's good working together. We've
[22:27] also, you know, we do quarterly
[22:29] feedback, which can be a lot, but I
[22:31] think it's one of those things that's
[22:33] very important for that timely
[22:35] reoccurring feedback loop. I think
[22:38] that's also provided opportunity for
[22:40] people to provide feedback not just for
[22:44] people they'd be mentoring or coaching,
[22:45] but also upward feedback. And I think
[22:48] we've shown in the past that we've been
[22:50] able to take that feedback and act on
[22:52] it. And I think it's only continued to
[22:54] provide the team members confidence to
[22:57] bring that stuff up and come forward.
[23:00] >> What you said there is really well said.
[23:02] So many people will say they take
[23:03] feedback seriously and maybe they'll
[23:04] even gather it. But you got to act on
[23:06] it. You can't just listen to people.
[23:08] They'll realize that you didn't do
[23:09] anything, right? They realize when
[23:10] you're just kind of bffing them. And I
[23:12] know you guys do a great job of taking
[23:14] what people say seriously when you hire
[23:16] because it sounds like you're hiring
[23:17] people you respect through the process.
[23:21] Yeah, but being able to kind of course
[23:23] correct real time makes a big
[23:24] difference.
[23:28] >> Time's going by fast. I could talk to
[23:30] you guys forever because I have so many
[23:31] questions about how I went through it.
[23:33] But I want to make sure to highlight
[23:34] what what is your plans for the future?
[23:35] Where are you trying to take this thing?
[23:37] I think everyone knows PE firms are
[23:39] actively buying up firms of your size
[23:42] and smaller and larger, but I know
[23:44] you're more interested in building
[23:46] something right now. And I'm just kind
[23:47] of curious where your heads are at on
[23:49] what's your vision for the firm over the
[23:51] next 1 3 5 years and what are you
[23:54] excited about?
[23:56] >> I think our vision is to become the
[24:00] go-to partner for finance and accounting
[24:02] leaders who are going through complex
[24:06] growth periods or transformation with
[24:08] their companies. Our goal is not just to
[24:12] grow in size, but to continue to grow in
[24:15] capability, reputation, and strategic
[24:18] value. So, a lot of that means expanding
[24:21] service lines while continuing to
[24:24] strengthen our core technical accounting
[24:27] and transaction support. It also means
[24:30] investing in our people. and we're being
[24:33] intentional about growing the team in a
[24:35] way that supports scale without losing
[24:38] what makes PCG special. For headcount,
[24:41] we're focused on smart demand driven
[24:44] growth, bringing in people when we have
[24:46] the right mix of opportunity and
[24:49] mentorship capacity to set them up for
[24:52] success. One thing we've learned through
[24:54] our past six years is that's very
[24:56] important. I'd say we're not really
[24:57] chasing size, more kind of building
[25:00] depth. As we grow, we're identifying
[25:02] strong internal performers early and
[25:05] giving them clear paths to lead and not
[25:08] just in title, but in responsibility.
[25:11] >> Anything you want to add there, Aaron,
[25:12] on vision?
[25:14] >> Yeah, we don't have any plans to get
[25:16] acquired or sell any point in time in
[25:21] the future. I believe there's a strong
[25:23] opportunity for us to fill the void left
[25:27] by the firms getting acquired right now.
[25:31] We were having a conversation the other
[25:32] day and made a joke, you know, we're the
[25:35] we're the only ones that's left and um
[25:40] talking, oh, you kind of are like it
[25:43] really resonated with them. I thought
[25:45] it's like an off joke and it just kind
[25:48] of drew, you know, the state of the
[25:49] industry. So, we do think there's a
[25:52] great opportunity there
[25:58] >> of just staying in for the values driven
[26:00] client service rather than for the
[26:02] money, right? and being able to serve
[26:04] the middle market, you know, even
[26:07] smaller middle market companies, a space
[26:10] that
[26:11] may not be well served by these huge
[26:14] firms that are doing tons of
[26:16] acquisitions and mergers and layoffs and
[26:20] restructuring and, you know, kind of
[26:24] builds a lot of chaos. you know, we have
[26:26] one team built from the ground up like
[26:29] purpose driven to serves the specific
[26:33] market. You know,
[26:38] I'm curious and I'm guessing as might be
[26:40] other than not taking PE money, what is
[26:44] any other bold moves you're making based
[26:46] on pure structure that you think other
[26:48] firms aren't making right now
[26:51] that makes PCG different?
[26:54] >> Yeah. I think our focus on building out
[26:58] that kind of full scale advisory firm at
[27:01] such a young age is ourselves and one of
[27:05] the key factors in it being kind of
[27:08] technology and automation like very very
[27:11] early on we brought in data analytics
[27:14] and that has been a core piece to our
[27:16] business whether it be FPNA work
[27:19] accounting advisory accounting
[27:21] operations PE data
[27:25] analysis and visualization. I mean, I
[27:27] think there's so many different ways you
[27:30] can utilize data and these automation
[27:34] tools that our clients don't always
[27:36] think about. There's definitely that old
[27:38] school thinking to technical accounting,
[27:40] write the memo, put together the
[27:42] analysis, deliver to the client. I think
[27:45] we go beyond that and think about it
[27:47] operationally for our clients and how
[27:49] they can put it into practice going
[27:51] forward. How can we automate this using
[27:53] the tools that we have to help them
[27:55] going forward? I think it's provided a
[27:58] lot of opportunity and realization for
[28:00] our clients. They realize they can do
[28:02] this stuff quicker and more accurately
[28:04] with the help of some of these
[28:05] automation tools or even building
[28:07] something in the back end.
[28:10] That's something that pumped me up about
[28:11] you guys is you never just deliver on
[28:14] scope. It's always hey, how can we add
[28:16] value more? And data analytics has been
[28:18] one of those cool ways that we all add
[28:20] value, right? Any thoughts on your side,
[28:23] Aaron?
[28:23] >> I think on top of that too, really
[28:26] keeping an eye out for
[28:29] emerging technologies, emerging startups
[28:33] in the industry that we can explore,
[28:37] test out, or maybe even partner with.
[28:39] I'd make the argument that a smaller,
[28:42] more nable firm like us to adopt
[28:44] technology much more quickly than a
[28:47] large bureaucratic organization. We can
[28:50] work and implement it pretty quickly.
[28:54] >> Yeah. Something I've already seen is
[28:55] really great about the team is everyone
[28:57] shows up to lunch and learns is actually
[28:58] interested in learning about new
[28:59] technologies, how to implement them,
[29:02] asking good questions. It's not just
[29:03] preuncter. Show up so the boss is happy.
[29:06] People are really sharp and want to
[29:08] figure out how to take advantage of
[29:09] these technologies. And everyone is
[29:12] innovative which is pretty abnormal for
[29:14] accountants. You got a bunch of
[29:15] extroverted innovative accountants.
[29:19] which is pretty unique. I'm curious,
[29:22] what would you guys
[29:24] have advised yourselves when you joined?
[29:27] If you could go back in time and give
[29:28] yourselves any advice for starting the
[29:30] firm.
[29:33] >> Wow.
[29:35] Take deep breaths. Everything's going to
[29:37] be okay. You're going to get through it.
[29:41] That's a good one. We can talk
[29:43] especially early on. Just uh wake up in
[29:46] the middle of the night in a cold sweat.
[29:48] What are we doing?
[29:52] >> Those have gone away by now, which is
[29:54] great.
[29:56] >> Yeah, big one.
[29:58] >> I like it.
[30:00] >> What question should have I asked here
[30:01] that I didn't ask?
[30:08] >> What question should you have asked?
[30:11] >> Yeah. What do you wish I asked you guys?
[30:17] I don't know maybe um
[30:22] some more color around the origins the
[30:24] beginnings I think one of the biggest
[30:26] things that changed and shaped
[30:29] PCG early on was co
[30:33] changed who we are and our vision
[30:35] initially we were like we're in the Bay
[30:37] Area we're going to open an office all
[30:39] of us are here all our clients are here
[30:42] we drive 3 hours a day to our clients
[30:44] but we didn't know any different. So
[30:46] great, you know, that change it changed
[30:50] our whole world. Clients expected
[30:52] people, you know, their consultants to
[30:54] have their butts in the seat and that
[30:56] changed. It really changed our vision.
[30:58] We focused more on hiring the right
[31:00] people no matter where they were than
[31:02] necessarily in the Bay Area. And I think
[31:04] it's opened up a whole new world for us
[31:07] since then. We've got clients all over
[31:09] the country. We got people all over the
[31:10] country with all different aspects and
[31:13] backgrounds. I think it's kind of
[31:15] changed a lot of who we are and
[31:17] different thinking. So that's been
[31:19] pretty cool.
[31:20] >> What is that kind of remote strategy? So
[31:22] many companies waffled and went back and
[31:25] forth and now as people are getting
[31:27] forced back, some companies are leaning
[31:29] in hybrid, some people are leaning all
[31:30] in, but more and more people are taking
[31:32] away the employees flexibility and so
[31:34] I'm just kind of curious on your
[31:36] perspective on all of that.
[31:39] >> Yeah, I mean we are remote company. I
[31:43] mean, we've got we've got a few hubs
[31:44] where people go into the office at
[31:47] shared workspaces together. New York,
[31:50] Colorado, Bay Area, Sacramento area.
[31:53] They they all get together, you know, a
[31:54] couple times a week. We are kind of
[31:56] remote first. Some of the biggest
[31:58] challenges that these companies
[31:59] requiring return to the office was for
[32:01] is kind of productivity. They didn't
[32:03] understand the productivity what was
[32:05] happening. You know, keep keeping people
[32:06] accountable. I think here at PCG, first
[32:10] off, I think consulting is kind of
[32:11] different. you are accountable because
[32:13] you have to report hours, you charge
[32:14] hours. So, you got numerous people
[32:16] looking looking at at that and you're
[32:19] also want to make sure that you're, you
[32:21] know, you're being accountable to your
[32:22] clients and charging correctly. I think
[32:25] it also comes down to that hiring.
[32:27] People want to be accountable. People
[32:29] want to own their own work. People want
[32:30] the flexibility. In order to have that
[32:33] flexibility, you have to have that
[32:34] trust. You have to have that
[32:36] accountability. You have to have that
[32:37] work ethic. And so I think it's worked
[32:40] out really well. I think it's been very
[32:42] positive and I think everybody loves the
[32:44] flexibility. It really comes down to,
[32:46] you know, people don't care whether
[32:48] consultants are working between 9 to 5.
[32:51] They care that the work's getting done.
[32:53] I think we do that really well. If that
[32:55] means somebody wants to take 30 minutes
[32:56] an hour during the day to work out or do
[32:59] something, as long as they're getting
[33:00] stuff done, it's all good.
[33:03] >> Goes back to retaining great people,
[33:04] right? Which is awesome. I think also
[33:06] you guys put your money where your mouth
[33:07] is, which I think is impressive. So many
[33:09] companies I've seen do the remote work.
[33:11] Like we want people to come back, but
[33:12] we're also not going to give anyone
[33:14] travel budget to meet up and we're not
[33:16] going to do events in person and kind of
[33:18] speak with both sides of their mouth.
[33:19] And something you all have done is
[33:20] always getting everyone together at
[33:22] least a few times a year, which is also
[33:24] abnormal for a firm and really cool. How
[33:26] did that start? Do you guys have any
[33:27] good origin story or where did the
[33:30] semianual retreat come from? It's not
[33:32] like some annual training retreat. you
[33:33] get everyone together and actually have
[33:35] real relationships with people and true
[33:37] friendship and bonding experiences. So
[33:40] that' be kind of fun to shed some light
[33:41] on.
[33:43] >> I remember our first ones during co we
[33:45] all got some beverages delivered to our
[33:48] houses and had a virtual coffee hour. It
[33:50] really just started as us
[33:53] were all friends. We were all living
[33:56] near each other just like an excuse to
[33:59] hang out and do something fun together.
[34:01] really was just going to hanging out
[34:04] with some friends. So really
[34:08] that was how it started and then it's
[34:10] just been an extension of how do we keep
[34:12] that going and keep that feeling alive,
[34:15] right?
[34:19] Yeah. I think it's become
[34:22] very important since we are all remote.
[34:25] We don't see each other that often,
[34:28] especially if you don't live in one of
[34:29] the hubs. Being able to get together a
[34:33] few times a year and have some fun
[34:35] continues to build that bond.
[34:37] >> For those listening who don't know, you
[34:39] guys go pretty abnormal cool places like
[34:40] rodeo was on the docket last time,
[34:42] right?
[34:43] >> And I'm sure you could go down a list.
[34:45] What was your favorite one? How about
[34:46] you guys? Which was your favorite
[34:49] >> PCG event you've had so far?
[34:52] >> Oh man, there's been so many different
[34:54] ones. One of them was one of our first
[34:56] ones. We went white water rafting. That
[34:59] was a lot of fun. probably cuz it added
[35:00] a little bit of excitement as well.
[35:03] Utah was great. Colorado was really
[35:06] cool, too. A little weird, but cool.
[35:10] We've got some fun ones on the docket
[35:12] that I'm really looking forward to as
[35:14] well.
[35:15] Connections, boring,
[35:18] some people, they don't work together
[35:19] much at all and meeting each other,
[35:22] getting to know each other, or maybe
[35:24] they do work together and they're, you
[35:26] know, strengthening that bonds. Uh
[35:30] that's always the best part.
[35:33] It's can be kind of a surreal experience
[35:35] when we work remotely in that
[35:39] seeing everyone together in one place at
[35:40] the same time.
[35:45] It's awesome. Hey, well guys, I
[35:47] appreciate you taking the time today.
[35:48] Hopefully have you guys back on if you
[35:49] ever want to talk in more detail about
[35:51] more origin story interests or like
[35:54] what's going on in the future or any hot
[35:57] topics. I really appreciate it and I
[35:59] think everyone's going to enjoy learning
[36:00] more about your story and hopefully feel
[36:02] encouraged. I'd like to ask this quick
[36:04] lightning round and then we'll close it
[36:05] out. Savory or sweet,
[36:08] >> Aaron?
[36:09] >> What do you prefer,
[36:11] >> Ryan? Sweet. Okay. And what's your
[36:14] favorite dessert? If you're going to
[36:15] choose a dessert, what are you going to
[36:16] choose?
[36:18] >> I think I go apple. They go well
[36:21] together. And then what's your least
[36:23] favorite piece of advice you get as
[36:25] business owners that everyone gives you?
[36:29] >> Least favorite advice?
[36:32] I once got advice from a big four
[36:37] partner. We were going back and forth on
[36:39] hiring somebody and they were like,
[36:41] "Just hire them. They don't work out.
[36:42] You can just get rid of them." That's
[36:44] not good. That's not what we're trying
[36:46] to do. I understand that happens, but
[36:50] that's not a way to go about it.
[36:52] >> Yeah. Amen to that.
[36:54] >> What come to mind? It wasn't directly
[36:56] advice per se, but was another
[36:58] independent consultant
[37:01] his own clients. I remember him talking
[37:03] about figure out ways to milk
[37:06] your clients. And I was be like, "Oh, I
[37:10] want to do business with this guy. This
[37:12] such a not good mentality for you know
[37:15] like how can I get as much money out of
[37:18] this client by doing as little work as
[37:21] possible. It just nowhere to the way we
[37:25] said it so casually just seemed like it
[37:27] was such a normal idea in his head.
[37:31] >> It's a testament to you guys. You guys
[37:32] are building something really cool. I'm
[37:33] excited to be a part of it. Thanks for
[37:35] coming on. I think people will find your
[37:36] story inspiring. hopefully have you on
[37:38] more frequently, maybe check-ins and see
[37:40] how the firm's doing in five years. It's
[37:42] not like 100 people isn't the goal
[37:43] necessarily. It's just build naturally
[37:46] and try to continue to serve people and
[37:47] growth will come organically.
[37:49] Congratulations on the success so far.
[37:50] It's really impressive.
[37:51] >> Thanks for thanks for joining us. We're
[37:54] going to do big things together. So, and
[37:56] thanks thanks for having us on here,
[37:58] Deon. Appreciate it.
[37:58] >> It was a blast. Thanks for coming on.