YouTube transcript
Video ID: HpT8oE1LaYc
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] I essentially tried to go on stress
[0:02] leave and couldn't because they wouldn't
[0:03] pay me because they said I wasn't sick
[0:04] enough to be off. When I saw my wife
[0:07] after she gave birth, she went back to
[0:09] being a physical therapist at a clinic.
[0:11] I won't name the place, but they made
[0:13] her pump in on a toilet. Like they
[0:15] didn't even have a place for her to pump
[0:17] and they didn't change her productivity
[0:19] requirements. For the first time in my
[0:21] life, I I had two job offers and I took
[0:23] the lower paying one. It's okay to leave
[0:26] the toxic job for less money because
[0:29] there are better jobs out there. And
[0:31] essentially, that's what it was when I
[0:33] started these other businesses was just
[0:35] to make up the difference. It was going
[0:36] to be a side hustle. I never thought I
[0:38] would be able to do very much with it.
[0:41] But like in full transparency, I'm
[0:43] making a lot more now than I was before.
[0:46] I've never shied away from trying new
[0:49] things and why not start a podcast. So
[0:51] that's how we started the Greedy Nurse
[0:52] podcast. You leaned on your customers.
[0:54] You took their feedback and you found
[0:56] what worked for them and you cared a lot
[0:58] about them. You loved your people that
[1:00] you were serving. And that is how we got
[1:02] started with bookw writing and the
[1:04] wisdom of nurses. So April 2024, we
[1:07] became number one bestsellers on the
[1:10] Global Mail and also Toronto Star. Hey
[1:12] everyone, welcome to Ambition Aligned.
[1:14] Today I'm really excited to have on
[1:16] Sarah, my friend, who is host of the
[1:18] Gritty Nurse podcast, author of the book
[1:21] The Wisdom of Nurses, Ed, also a career
[1:24] coach and confidence coach. Hearing her
[1:26] journey about how she went from being a
[1:28] nurse leader to a number one
[1:29] best-selling author and podcast host,
[1:32] and owning her own successful business
[1:34] in less than 5 years is nothing short of
[1:36] inspiring. I think you're going to get a
[1:38] ton out of this episode. We talk about
[1:40] really important aspects of the
[1:42] healthcare industry and how we have to
[1:44] treat our nurses and healthcare
[1:46] providers much better. And I just really
[1:49] think you're going to love it.
[1:51] Subscribe, like it, and please support
[1:53] Sarah and all of her initiatives. Let's
[1:56] get started. Sarah, thanks so much for
[1:58] coming on. I really appreciate it. I
[1:59] think the our audience is really going
[2:01] to get a really interesting perspective
[2:03] on from you on what it's like to
[2:06] transition from being a nurse and from
[2:09] hospital care and all all of the medical
[2:12] industry to being an entrepreneur and um
[2:15] it's personally a really interesting
[2:16] topic to me because my wife is a
[2:18] physical therapist and we especially
[2:21] during co realized the struggles that
[2:23] can happen from the
[2:25] hyperproductivity and just the amount of
[2:28] labor and caring ing it takes to be in
[2:30] that industry. Um, and the juxaposition
[2:32] against the tech industry and how like
[2:35] work from home and people are
[2:36] complaining including myself complain
[2:38] about, oh, we have to be on call at all
[2:40] hours, but we're at home and we're not
[2:42] dealing with patients and we're not
[2:43] dealing with insurance companies and
[2:45] hyperp productive care. So, um, so I'm
[2:47] just excited about today's episode. So
[2:48] I'm curious from your perspective if you
[2:50] could just share with everyone a little
[2:51] and the audience just a little bit of
[2:53] your background and maybe your journey
[2:55] from being a nurse to writing a book and
[2:59] becoming an entrepreneur. Yeah, first of
[3:00] all, thank you so much for having me on
[3:02] this podcast. I am pretty sure this is
[3:04] my first tech podcast ever. So I'm
[3:06] really excited to share some of my
[3:08] learnings and I do think there is a lot
[3:09] of intersection actually between
[3:12] healthcare and tech although people
[3:14] don't think of it that way. So my
[3:16] background is I'm a registered nurse.
[3:17] I've been a nurse for uh 18 years now
[3:20] and I've worked in a variety of
[3:22] different roles. So like most nurses, I
[3:24] started at the bedside, which is what
[3:26] most people think of when they think of
[3:27] nursing. They think of a nurse at the
[3:29] bedside in a hospital. So that's where I
[3:32] started my career in labor and delivery.
[3:34] I spent most of my career working with
[3:36] moms and new babies. And I did things
[3:38] like prenatal education. I worked for a
[3:41] little bit as a research nurse. I taught
[3:44] college courses to other nurses. And
[3:46] then I transitioned into nursing
[3:48] leadership. So I was working on things
[3:50] like quality improvements and projects
[3:52] and policies, all that kind of stuff
[3:55] that you don't think of behind the
[3:56] scenes when it comes to healthcare. And
[3:58] long story short, in 2019, I had sort of
[4:01] a mental breakdown, stress episode where
[4:05] I needed to be off work and I was not
[4:08] supported to be off work. And I decided
[4:10] at that point I was going to try
[4:12] something different which was out of the
[4:14] hospital setting. So, I took a job as an
[4:17] educator in home and community care. So,
[4:19] as you know, a lot of people, a lot of
[4:21] elderly people receive care in their
[4:23] homes rather than having to go to the
[4:25] hospital if they don't need to. And
[4:27] around that same time, I was really
[4:29] feeling frustrated and burnt out and not
[4:31] being listened to. And a friend of mine
[4:33] who I worked with said, "Hey, do you
[4:35] want to start a podcast?" And I thought,
[4:37] "Well, why not? I've never shied away
[4:39] from trying new things and why not start
[4:41] a podcast?" So that's how we started the
[4:43] Grey Nurse podcast. And around that same
[4:46] time, I started to become really
[4:48] interested in helping nurses with their
[4:49] careers because in leadership, we would
[4:52] interview a lot of nurses. And I could
[4:54] tell there were some really great nurses
[4:55] with not so great resumes and not so
[4:58] great interview skills. And I thought if
[5:00] someone had just prepared them a little
[5:01] bit, they would have probably done a lot
[5:03] better. And so those two things kind of
[5:05] went side by side and the pandemic hit
[5:08] and uh we we were being asked to be
[5:12] interviewed a lot on live media talking
[5:13] about the pandemic and things like that
[5:16] and um a literary agent actually saw us
[5:18] on one of those media segments and asked
[5:20] us if we'd be interested in writing a
[5:22] book and that is how we got started with
[5:25] bookw writing and the wisdom of nurses
[5:27] which was released just a year ago uh
[5:29] bestseller
[5:30] list. Well, congratulations on that and
[5:33] I just got through reading it and so
[5:35] we'll definitely plug it and I encourage
[5:36] everyone to read it. I wasn't when when
[5:39] you sent it to me or when you told me
[5:41] about it, I wasn't expecting to get all
[5:42] the ghost stories and the interesting
[5:44] background on it uh on uh Nightingale
[5:48] and the like what famous nurses are and
[5:50] and aren't and why they don't get as
[5:52] much recognition as they deserve. So, I
[5:54] thought it was actually a really fun fun
[5:55] read. I was expecting something a little
[5:57] different, but I was really pleasantly
[5:59] surprised. So well worth you earning the
[6:01] top seller mark and congratulations and
[6:03] I encourage everyone here to read it. Um
[6:05] there's so much to unpack there. I want
[6:06] to start with something that maybe
[6:08] everyone ex everyone I know who really
[6:10] cares about their work tends to
[6:12] experience especially stvers of people
[6:14] who want want to do more is that feeling
[6:17] of it sounded like you weren't supported
[6:19] by your work for a little bit of around
[6:21] burnout and or something tangential to
[6:24] burnout and so I'm wondering if you can
[6:26] talk more about that. what what were you
[6:29] um what were you experiencing and what
[6:32] what did you need ultimately to get
[6:34] through that experience because I'm sure
[6:35] so many people are going through that
[6:36] right now. A lot of people don't realize
[6:39] that in nursing there is a lot of what
[6:41] we call nurses eating their young. So
[6:42] when you first start as a nurse it's
[6:44] almost like you have to go through this
[6:45] right of passage where the older more
[6:48] experienced nurses haze you. They
[6:50] purposely don't tell you what you need
[6:51] to do. They make life harder for you as
[6:53] a newrad in order to help you earn your
[6:56] stripes. And so that has become kind of
[6:59] part of nursing culture. And I actually
[7:01] was lucky enough to not really
[7:03] experience that. Where I started
[7:04] experiencing the toxic work environment
[7:06] was when I moved into my very first
[7:08] nursing leadership role. And I do think
[7:11] I was a bit younger than most nurses to
[7:13] get my first nursing leadership role.
[7:15] And um because nursing is so
[7:17] traditional, it's so focused on your
[7:18] years of experience. I think that was a
[7:20] little bit threatening to other people
[7:22] on the team. And so they made it hard
[7:24] for me to get my work done. So things
[7:27] like gaslighting, withholding
[7:28] information I needed. I didn't have the
[7:30] terms at the time for what I was going
[7:32] through, but that is essentially what it
[7:34] was. And I suffered through that for
[7:36] almost 2 years. But because I was
[7:38] pregnant at the time, I told myself I
[7:40] needed to make it through to my Matt
[7:41] leave. That was my goal. Get through the
[7:43] Matt leave. and then you know then
[7:45] you'll be off for your time. So that was
[7:48] really my first experience with toxic
[7:50] work environments and my entire goal as
[7:54] as sad as it sounds my entire goal of my
[7:56] Matt leave was to not have to return
[7:58] that to that job. So while I was on Matt
[8:00] leave, I did interview and got hired at
[8:02] a different job also in leadership at a
[8:05] different organization and I moved into
[8:08] that role and probably within 3 months I
[8:10] was experiencing the same thing but this
[8:12] time it was coming from my manager
[8:15] instead of my teammates. So that
[8:16] toxicity, the unreasonable expectations,
[8:20] the gaslighting, being told to work on
[8:22] one thing and then in a separate meeting
[8:24] being told, "No, that's not what I asked
[8:26] you to do. I wanted you to do something
[8:27] else." and really started to make me
[8:29] question my sanity. Like, did I hear did
[8:31] I understand exactly what I was expected
[8:34] to do or was it me? Right? Like the
[8:36] first thing I was doing was blaming
[8:38] myself. And it got to a point where I
[8:42] was experiencing a lot of mental stress,
[8:45] a lot of physical symptoms. I was
[8:47] literally going to therapy to try and
[8:50] uncover the solution to these problems.
[8:53] And what I realized was it was all
[8:55] coming from this toxic work environment
[8:57] and not feeling supported, feeling burnt
[8:59] out, and having really no one to turn
[9:01] to. And I think that this happens in a
[9:04] lot of different industries. But you
[9:05] would think that in healthcare because
[9:07] we are a caring profession that we would
[9:09] care for each other. Well, it's actually
[9:11] very much the opposite in a lot of
[9:12] cases. And even though you are a
[9:15] caregiver by background, we don't
[9:18] receive that care back in return when we
[9:20] need it. and I really thought this was
[9:22] something I needed to do for myself and
[9:24] I really had to pivot my career at that
[9:25] point and find something where I was
[9:27] feeling more supported.
[9:31] Well, first off, I'm sorry that you
[9:33] experienced that and I want to say it's
[9:35] it's kind of it it was an eye openener
[9:37] for me too when I saw my wife after she
[9:40] gave birth. She went back to being a
[9:42] physical therapist at a clinic. I won't
[9:43] name the place, but they made her pump
[9:46] in on a toilet. like they didn't even
[9:48] have a place for her to pump and they
[9:50] didn't change her productivity
[9:51] requirements. And so I remember how
[9:53] stressed she was on, you know, you're
[9:55] barely operating on any sleep because
[9:57] you're taking care of a young child in a
[9:59] she only had two or three months a very
[10:01] limited Matt leave in the first place
[10:03] and she had to take government benefits
[10:04] for it all. And then to be back and not
[10:06] even have enough time to pump um to get
[10:08] milk for our daughter was so stressful
[10:11] for her. And then she would get hounded
[10:12] about
[10:13] productivity all all the time. and she
[10:16] was a highly productive, highly
[10:17] intelligent person like yourself. But I
[10:20] think it's fascinating and really
[10:21] unfortunate how negative the leadership
[10:24] experience can be in very technical
[10:27] industries. I've seen it in accounting
[10:29] and finance where you you kind of move
[10:31] up because you've survived long enough,
[10:34] not because you're actually a great
[10:36] leader or you care about people and then
[10:38] because they had a hard time, they give
[10:40] everyone else a hard time. You saying
[10:42] nurses eating eating their young, right?
[10:44] And that's just it's horrible and I a
[10:47] deplorable and there needs to be better
[10:48] leaders in these fields taking care of
[10:50] taking care and being compassionate for
[10:52] their people. Um so were you able to was
[10:56] that transition what you needed to find
[10:58] uh to find some of that balance? Are you
[11:00] finding that? Oh yeah. So I after I had
[11:02] that episode where I essentially tried
[11:05] to go on stress leave and couldn't
[11:06] because they wouldn't pay me because
[11:07] they said I wasn't sick enough to be
[11:09] off. I took a job and I totally pivoted.
[11:12] So, I left the hospital and I went into
[11:14] home and community care in a leadership
[11:16] position. And for the first time in my
[11:19] life, I I had two job offers and I took
[11:21] the lower paying one. And up until this
[11:24] point, I'd always been so fixated on
[11:26] making a certain income and increasing
[11:27] my salary with every move. I took a pay
[11:30] cut because I liked the people at this
[11:33] other job better and I felt like it was
[11:35] a change that I needed to maybe not be
[11:37] working with doctors. And it turned out
[11:39] to be exactly what I needed. So, I took
[11:41] a chance and I pivoted completely and it
[11:45] was great
[11:46] because I didn't know what it was like
[11:48] to not work in a toxic work environment
[11:50] and I realized I had actually developed
[11:52] a lot of bad habits which I talk about.
[11:54] So, things like gossiping instead of
[11:56] just getting the work done. When I had a
[11:58] problem with someone, I should just talk
[12:00] to them face to face instead of talking
[12:01] about them with everyone around me
[12:03] except that person. So, these are the
[12:05] things that I had been accustomed to in
[12:07] very toxic work environments. And it
[12:10] wasn't until I had a boss who was a man
[12:12] for the first time, he said, Sarah, he's
[12:14] like, "Why don't you just get the work
[12:15] done?" And I thought, "Yes, that makes
[12:18] total sense. Why don't I just get the
[12:20] work done instead of talking about why
[12:22] this person hasn't done X, Y, and Zed?"
[12:25] Like, it was just so it was just like a
[12:28] slap in the face like I could just get
[12:29] the work done and so I should do that.
[12:32] And we went through something called
[12:34] accreditation, which is basically a
[12:36] designation. And it's a very stressful
[12:39] time. So several months into this job,
[12:40] we had to go through this accreditation
[12:42] process. And that's typically when you
[12:44] see people at their absolute worst. And
[12:46] I did not see any bad behavior
[12:48] whatsoever at this new job. And I
[12:50] thought, well, if this is how people
[12:51] behave when they're the most stressed, I
[12:54] think I found the place that I want to
[12:55] be. And about 4 months into this new
[12:59] job, this is when the pandemic hit. And
[13:01] so inadvertently, this job turned into
[13:03] my very first remote job. and I stayed
[13:05] at it for about two years after the
[13:07] pandemic hit until I had grown my
[13:10] business enough to feel comfortable to
[13:12] step away from this full-time job. So
[13:14] now I create my own schedule. I have
[13:17] what I call slow mornings where I drink
[13:19] coffee. I go to all my kids field trips.
[13:22] I volunteer. Like it's something that I
[13:25] never thought was possible. It's better
[13:27] than what I ever thought I could have.
[13:29] And I'm still helping people. So, with
[13:31] my with my career coaching business, I'm
[13:33] still helping healthcare professionals.
[13:35] With a podcast and the book, I'm able to
[13:37] advocate for better work conditions for
[13:40] nurses and even tell people what it
[13:42] actually is that nurses do. And I think
[13:44] this is something that not a lot of
[13:46] people really understand beyond what
[13:48] they see in traditional media and TV and
[13:51] movies.
[13:54] So, yeah, there's so much to talk about
[13:56] here. Yeah, it's all amazing points and
[13:58] I love what you're doing and I love that
[14:00] I love for you that you have come to
[14:02] this other side and are finding
[14:05] something better for yourself. And I
[14:06] think what a lot of people need to hear
[14:09] in every industry is it's okay to leave
[14:12] the toxic job for less money because
[14:16] there are better jobs out there and it's
[14:18] really a lot of people feel really
[14:19] trapped and my wife felt that way. She
[14:22] thought especially in the healthcare
[14:23] industry she thought she had to leave.
[14:25] she was weird like exploring her going
[14:27] to study engineering or even accounting
[14:29] or something different because she just
[14:32] thought she was stuck in um in
[14:35] healthcare and she had little stories
[14:36] about like how she couldn't even have
[14:38] time for a cup of coffee that's normal
[14:39] to enjoy her cup of coffee which is you
[14:42] know we take for granted I got to have
[14:44] my cup of coffee in front of my desk at
[14:45] all time maybe drink too much but so
[14:48] many people in healthcare like don't
[14:50] even have she'd be dehydrated because
[14:52] she wouldn't get water breaks because
[14:53] she was so busy in between patients and
[14:55] she had to wear masks then she couldn't
[14:57] have take the time to change because of
[14:58] productivity requirements. Some of the
[15:00] stuff is borderline like Oh, it is
[15:03] totally Yeah, it is abuse. Absolutely.
[15:06] 100%. So, yeah. So, it's a great that
[15:10] you're advocating for it and I wish like
[15:11] if I knew about you before like a year
[15:13] or two before um we actually went
[15:15] through that ourselves, I would have
[15:16] just hired you on the spot because that
[15:18] would have been so helpful to know that
[15:20] there was that avenue of going into
[15:22] something warmer or finding a better
[15:23] work work life balance. Um but a few
[15:25] things I want to call out there. First
[15:27] is how did you get in the mindset of
[15:29] accepting less money because I I feel
[15:31] like that is something that traps
[15:33] people. So, I feel when I'm coaching
[15:35] people is I I was just talking to
[15:37] someone the the other day of, hey, I'm I
[15:40] want to get a job where I have better
[15:42] work life balance, I have more money,
[15:43] and I get promoted and I can work
[15:45] remotely. And it's really hard for to
[15:47] explain to people that's kind of not how
[15:48] that's not how it you don't you don't
[15:50] get to get all of it, right? Everyone
[15:52] would wants that. How how do you if you
[15:55] want more flexibility and more control
[15:57] over your life, which is which is what
[15:58] you've done, how did you get yourself
[16:00] into the mindset of taking that risk? I
[16:03] think I was at the my breaking point
[16:05] really. So similar to your wife, I was
[16:07] having serious doubts about even staying
[16:09] in the nursing profession. So when it
[16:12] came down to it, when it came down to
[16:13] those two job offers, the first one
[16:16] matched my salary because it was what I
[16:18] asked for. But I actually had heard from
[16:20] two different former employees who
[16:22] worked at that organization at different
[16:24] times in completely different
[16:25] departments that it was an awful place
[16:27] to be. So that was red flag number one.
[16:31] Um, number two was that I had found out
[16:34] that a lot of people in leadership at
[16:36] that organization were part of the same
[16:38] family. And I'm not saying there's
[16:39] anything wrong with family-owned
[16:40] organizations, but I could see that
[16:42] there could be a lot of nepotism there.
[16:44] And I just thought, well, if we're
[16:47] talking about 15%, like we're not
[16:49] talking about a it is it is substantial,
[16:51] but it's not like half the pay I was
[16:53] making. It was 15%. And I was able to
[16:56] negotiate a couple other things that
[16:58] were non-monetary, such as they waved
[17:00] the waiting period on my benefits. They
[17:02] gave me my choice of starting date. They
[17:04] gave me more vacation when I asked for
[17:05] it. And I thought, well, this seems to
[17:08] me like they're compromising, right?
[17:11] And it was just really that or I was
[17:14] going to leave just like your wife. It
[17:15] was either I take this pay cut or I'm
[17:17] going to leave because I don't know what
[17:18] else to do right now. And I had been
[17:20] without pay all this time. I was trying
[17:22] to get approved for stress leave. So, I
[17:24] was already making no money. I needed
[17:26] something. So, I guess it really came
[17:27] down to practicality. And I just
[17:30] thought, well, if it really came down to
[17:32] it, maybe I would pick up something on
[17:34] the side to make up the difference. And
[17:36] essentially, that's what it was when I
[17:38] started these other businesses was just
[17:40] to make up the difference. It was going
[17:41] to be a side hustle. I never thought I
[17:43] would be able to do very much with it.
[17:46] But, like, in full transparency, I'm
[17:48] making a lot more now than I was before.
[17:51] So sometimes taking a little risk and a
[17:53] min and a temporary pay cut, it does pay
[17:56] out in the end.
[17:59] Well, yeah, maybe you can say that again
[18:00] for the audience because I think it's so
[18:02] important and it's something I talk
[18:03] about all the time and I do financial
[18:05] literacy courses. Like being able to
[18:08] take these risks can ultimately unlock
[18:12] even more money and more success because
[18:14] you're living aligned with your values
[18:16] and you're not burnt out and you're
[18:17] actually doing things that are adding
[18:19] value to people and you're not being
[18:21] unlocked and like stuck in these crazy
[18:22] bureaucratic organizations that are
[18:24] abusive. You ride you do better when
[18:26] you're not in those environments, right?
[18:28] And so I'm curious if you're speaking to
[18:31] like maybe there's some nurses out there
[18:33] or PTs or people in healthcare who just
[18:36] feel like they're stuck and may maybe
[18:38] you could speak to them and say that
[18:40] again you know say exactly what you just
[18:42] said of what's on the other side of this
[18:45] right if they if they stop chasing the
[18:47] money and the title. Yeah I think that
[18:49] it is about taking a calculated risk. So
[18:51] I'm not suggesting anybody go out and
[18:53] quit your full-time job right now and
[18:54] start a business when you have no idea
[18:56] what you want to do. I think it is a
[18:58] process, but I think you have to get
[18:59] into the mindset that without taking a
[19:02] small risk, there is not going to be
[19:03] that reward. I talked to a lot of nurses
[19:05] and healthcare professionals that have
[19:07] what I call the golden handcuffs. So,
[19:09] they're so concerned about their
[19:11] seniority or their benefits or whatever
[19:15] else they feel like they've worked
[19:16] towards, but meanwhile, they're
[19:17] miserable that they think about leaving
[19:20] every day, but without realizing that
[19:22] there is so much that you could do, but
[19:24] you have to take that little chance and
[19:25] you have to get into the mindset that
[19:27] there's nothing that's a guarantee,
[19:29] right? You are taking a risk, but
[19:31] without doing that, you don't know how
[19:34] much better it could be. And so, part of
[19:37] it, I think, is also confidence. It's
[19:38] like when to use the term that you use
[19:41] when you've been abused, right? You are
[19:43] going to lose your confidence. But this
[19:44] is where you have to think about well
[19:46] how have I been successful before and
[19:48] how have I picked myself up before? What
[19:50] am I good at and what do I enjoy? And it
[19:52] doesn't really have to have a lot to do
[19:53] with healthcare. Like I right now I help
[19:56] clients. I do one-on-one coaching with
[19:58] their careers. That's not really what I
[20:00] learned in my career, but I do have that
[20:03] expertise. I have the lived experience.
[20:05] Being a nurse, I'm a good listener.
[20:07] where I feel like I'm very empathetic.
[20:09] So there are ways that you can take
[20:11] little bits of what you have done in a
[20:13] previous job and turn it into something
[20:14] else completely different but still
[20:17] using your knowledge and skill.
[20:22] No, thank you. That's that's golden. And
[20:24] I'd encourage everyone, you know, go
[20:25] down that path. If you are not being
[20:27] treated correctly, give yourself
[20:29] cushion. figure out how you could take
[20:31] that calculated risk and take it not
[20:33] just for yourself, but for your family,
[20:35] for your health, for your future self,
[20:37] right? It it winds up being better as
[20:39] long as you're as long as you're really
[20:40] taking that calculated risk. I'm not
[20:42] saying this to the brand new student who
[20:44] just graduated and is having a hard time
[20:46] their first month, right? This is for
[20:47] people who are seasoned in their career
[20:49] and are being exploited. Um, with that,
[20:52] so let's go. You a lot of people would
[20:55] end it there. Like that's already a
[20:57] winning like amazing story that you went
[20:59] through this abuse which was so
[21:00] unfortunate and you found a great job
[21:03] and then you built a business. So can
[21:05] you talk about a little bit about how
[21:08] that happened and especially during co
[21:10] and especially being a parent it's
[21:12] that's a full-time job too. So you're
[21:13] doing all of this at the same time. Can
[21:15] you just talk about balancing that and
[21:17] how this podcast and this business
[21:19] emerged while you were still parenting
[21:22] and working this other full-time job?
[21:23] Well, I think the thing is I didn't
[21:25] really think it through. I just I just
[21:27] started. And that's the hardest part
[21:28] about starting a business is actually
[21:30] starting because the truth is there is
[21:32] never going to be a perfect time to
[21:34] start a business. Um I read this quote
[21:36] once and I think it's really meaningful.
[21:38] It's like the best time to start a
[21:41] business is today. The second time the
[21:43] second best time to start was yesterday.
[21:45] So you just need to get started. And
[21:47] your first business idea may not be the
[21:49] idea, but without actually trying it,
[21:51] you won't learn. Right? So, my first
[21:53] business I started over 10 years ago,
[21:56] and I was trying to be somewhat of a
[21:58] postpartum doula to help new moms after
[22:00] they had their baby cuz I felt like they
[22:02] weren't getting enough support in the
[22:03] hospital. And nobody remembers this
[22:06] business because I was so afraid to fail
[22:08] that I didn't even really tell people I
[22:10] was doing it. Like my own husband forgot
[22:12] about this. He's like, "What are you
[22:14] talking about?" I'm like, "Remember that
[22:15] business I tried to start and I paid all
[22:17] this money for a website and never went
[22:19] anywhere?" And he's like, "Oh, oh yeah."
[22:22] And I'm like, "Okay, if he doesn't even
[22:23] remember, that's how forgettable it
[22:25] was." But what I did learn from that was
[22:27] that I didn't know how to market myself.
[22:29] I didn't know how to do the things. I
[22:32] had the clinical expertise, but I didn't
[22:34] have anything else. And so, it's okay to
[22:36] fail. It's okay to, you know, start from
[22:38] square one. But just getting back to
[22:40] your question, I just found a little way
[22:44] to start. So, for example, with the
[22:45] podcast, we just started putting
[22:47] episodes out. It was awful. The first
[22:49] one, we didn't even know how to stop the
[22:51] recording. And we didn't realize till
[22:53] after we released it that we also didn't
[22:54] take that part out. So, if you listen to
[22:57] the end of the very first episode,
[22:58] you'll hear me being like, I'm going to
[22:59] go listen to it. How do I stop this? How
[23:01] do I stop this? Oh, okay. I got it. So,
[23:03] there's nowhere to go but up. And I
[23:05] don't want to take that episode off cuz
[23:06] I I want the proof that I have improved
[23:09] since then. And really, when you're
[23:11] starting at the bottom, there's nowhere
[23:13] to go but up. And then with the resume
[23:15] stuff, I didn't think at the time that
[23:17] nurses needed help with their careers
[23:19] because this was before the pandemic,
[23:21] before everyone was feeling like they're
[23:22] feeling now. And I literally just joined
[23:25] a couple Facebook groups and I said,
[23:26] "Hey, does anybody want their resume
[23:29] reviewed for free?" And in exchange,
[23:30] just write me a testimonial. So, I did
[23:33] that a lot. I would say for a good 2 or
[23:36] 3 years, I didn't have time to watch
[23:39] Netflix. So, what I would do is I'd get
[23:41] up really in the early in the morning,
[23:43] sometimes even like around 5:00 or 6:00
[23:45] in the morning. I'd work until my kids
[23:47] woke up, look after them, did my
[23:50] full-time job, which was usually about
[23:51] 8:00 to 4:00. Then they would, you know,
[23:54] do all the after school stuff, dinner,
[23:57] bath time, bed. Then from about 9 until
[24:01] 12, if I felt up to it, I would do more
[24:03] work. So that went on for several years.
[24:06] And this is where I said I didn't have
[24:08] time to watch Netflix. People kept
[24:10] talking about this show called um The
[24:13] Lion. What was it? The one The Tiger
[24:15] King. The Tiger King. Uh I didn't watch
[24:17] that show for probably 2 years until
[24:19] after it came out because I didn't have
[24:21] the time. And so now when I talk about
[24:23] the fact that I have time, it took a lot
[24:26] of this to get to that point. But I
[24:29] would say it's worth it and you get to
[24:31] work on your own terms and you get to
[24:33] call the shots. If there's something I
[24:35] don't want to do or someone I don't want
[24:37] to work with, I just don't do it now.
[24:39] Whereas before, I didn't have the
[24:40] choice, right? I had to make it work. I
[24:42] had to make it work so that I could get
[24:43] my job done and not get written up.
[24:47] Yeah. Well, what you did was perfect.
[24:50] And it's just amazing the uh the
[24:52] parallels like in business we call it MV
[24:54] the MVP like the minimum viable product
[24:56] but the idea is the same. It's take the
[24:59] risk and get something out there
[25:00] immediately and learn from it and and
[25:02] you'll learn from what people want to
[25:04] purchase and you did it while still
[25:07] doing your your work which is the
[25:09] challenge but also the way you learn so
[25:11] you don't take a full risk right and so
[25:14] um so yeah I it's I would recommend that
[25:16] to anyone that just start immediately
[25:19] start learning now and that doesn't mean
[25:20] diving into it 100% it means starting to
[25:23] put effort in every single day and
[25:24] knowing that the it's frontloaded right
[25:26] like you said
[25:27] your learning and everything is going to
[25:29] be on an exponential curve and your
[25:31] learning curve is also on on that curve.
[25:33] So, you're going to get better at it as
[25:34] you go, but the first few years are
[25:36] going to be a little tough and you're
[25:37] going to have to take some extra time on
[25:38] the front end, but it's worth it on the
[25:39] back end once you learn. Yeah. And all
[25:41] these business terms that you're
[25:42] mentioning, I learned after the fact.
[25:43] So, the MVP I learned not that long ago,
[25:46] probably about a year and a half ago.
[25:48] But like informally, I was doing that. I
[25:51] just didn't have the terminology or
[25:53] necessarily the strategy. But that is
[25:55] all stuff you can learn afterwards, too.
[25:58] Don't feel like you have to learn
[25:59] everything and be perfect before you get
[26:00] started because that is really what
[26:03] there a lot of the hesitation is. People
[26:05] feel like they have to be perfect when
[26:06] really you just need to get out there
[26:07] and learn as you go.
[26:10] Yeah. And I'm I'm curious if you had
[26:12] this experience, too, and then I'll get
[26:13] back to the like the order of the story,
[26:15] but I find it it's it's so funny that
[26:17] it's so much easier to critique than
[26:19] create, right? And so for me, when I
[26:21] first started doing the podcast and when
[26:22] I started doing my own business and I
[26:24] can't tell you how many people give me
[26:26] feedback, I'm like, "Oh, you know, you
[26:28] could have like look at this podcast
[26:29] that you could do it more like this or
[26:31] hey, check this out or have you thought
[26:33] about doing this for your business? I
[26:34] think this would be a better niche for
[26:35] you." And that's that kind of thought
[26:39] process for me is what gets people
[26:41] stuck. It's like you're overanaly. If
[26:43] you're overanalyzing what I'm doing, how
[26:44] much are you overanalyzing what you you
[26:46] yourself are doing? you're never going
[26:47] to be able to go and create and do
[26:49] something that just takes action and
[26:51] kind of falling on your face a few times
[26:53] and looking and being embarrassed,
[26:54] right? And I think no matter where you
[26:56] are, there's going to be someone ahead
[26:57] of you and there's going to be someone
[26:58] behind you. So, you're always looking
[27:00] at, well, how can I be more like this
[27:02] person, not realizing that you're
[27:04] already ahead of a lot of people? And
[27:06] also, the world doesn't need another one
[27:08] of someone that's already out there.
[27:10] They need your they they need your
[27:12] authenticity and your genuiness. Um I I
[27:17] don't actually listen to that many
[27:18] podcasts. I know this sounds bad even
[27:20] though I have my own and I like to come
[27:22] on other podcasts but it's for that
[27:24] exact reason right I listen I start
[27:26] feeling anxious I start comparing myself
[27:28] to other people that I should talk a
[27:30] certain way that I should act a certain
[27:31] way there is a certain format that I
[27:33] should have my own podcast or my own way
[27:35] of speaking but people just connect with
[27:38] you as you are and it's okay if it's not
[27:40] perfect I have made many mistakes and
[27:43] often the mistakes you make are more
[27:44] apparent to you than other people and if
[27:47] people are judging
[27:49] Are they out there doing the same thing
[27:50] or are they judging you from behind
[27:52] where they are from the security of not
[27:55] putting themselves out there? So that's
[27:56] the thing you have to ask yourself,
[27:58] right? It's like you said, it's so easy
[27:59] to judge, but are they out there doing
[28:01] the same things? And if they're not,
[28:03] does their opinion really matter that
[28:05] much or does your opinion matter more?
[28:09] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I I love it. I love
[28:11] it. I'm curious when did it happen? So,
[28:13] I'm kind of following the the storyline
[28:15] of you're working 9 to midnight while
[28:18] building your business while you're
[28:20] working and being and doing mom duty and
[28:23] all that that entails. When do you start
[28:26] getting the confidence of saying, "Wow,
[28:28] I found my niche. I found where I'm
[28:30] really helping people and I think this
[28:33] is going to be I think this is going to
[28:35] be where it all heads." Um, I would say
[28:38] that I had noticed that the business was
[28:40] steadily growing. It still wasn't at a
[28:43] point to where I probably should have
[28:44] left, but it was probably, let's see,
[28:47] end of 2021. I had a really impactful
[28:50] conversation with one of my good friends
[28:53] husbands who is in copywriting and he
[28:55] has been an entrepreneur for he's been
[28:58] working on his own for almost 20 years.
[29:00] And I told him my dilemma about the
[29:02] hours like I had a full-time job. I had
[29:04] these two businesses. I had the kids and
[29:07] something had to give. And I did not
[29:09] want it to be the business. So then he
[29:12] said to me, because my husband was
[29:15] feeling really nervous about all this
[29:16] and finances, he said, "Why don't you
[29:18] time box it? Tell him you're going to
[29:20] try this for 12 months and if it doesn't
[29:22] work, you can go back to your job.
[29:24] There's no there's no harm in that." So
[29:27] that's how I presented it to my husband
[29:28] because he's a numbers guy and he's very
[29:31] um riskaverse. So I presented this to
[29:33] him and I said, "Listen, it's been
[29:35] growing two to three times
[29:37] year-over-year. I know it's not really
[29:38] at a level yet where it's matched my
[29:41] current income, but I think I'm slowing
[29:43] down because I'm I've got this full-time
[29:45] job really just getting in the way all
[29:47] the time. So, he said, "Okay, let's just
[29:50] try it." So, I think within 6 months, I
[29:52] had decided that this was going to work
[29:54] and I was growing fast enough. And then
[29:57] I kind of
[29:59] gradually left the full-time job. And
[30:01] what I mean by that is I left the
[30:02] full-time hours, but then they asked me
[30:04] to stay part-time. Then they asked me to
[30:06] cover a leave of absence. Then they
[30:08] asked me to work, you know, one day a
[30:09] week. So it was a gradual transition
[30:11] which probably worked out for the
[30:13] better. And then I fully left full-time
[30:15] work in
[30:17] 2022. So it was a it was a slow
[30:20] transition, but I think it was really
[30:21] what was needed to make sure that I
[30:24] could do this. And just getting back to
[30:26] your question about confidence, I think
[30:28] the more results I saw just it just was
[30:31] this cycle of, okay, I can do it. I can
[30:33] do it. And I was used to that point not
[30:36] having the same exact income every
[30:39] month. So I think as an entrepreneur you
[30:41] have to get comfortable with that. But
[30:43] it is part of what it takes, right? To
[30:45] really have the freedom and creativity
[30:48] that you're looking for if that's what
[30:49] you want to
[30:51] do. Yeah. And it goes back to this whole
[30:54] interesting concept of us kind of being
[30:56] addicted to the work culture, right?
[30:58] That whole idea of a paycheck and us not
[31:00] planning financially. Something I always
[31:02] push on this channel is like how much
[31:04] can you really live on and are you
[31:05] actually planning your family finances
[31:07] like a business because that's not how
[31:09] real life works. Like you don't for most
[31:11] most of history we didn't get salaries,
[31:13] right? We like farmed and grew food and
[31:15] had to store it for winter and or hunt
[31:17] and store it for winter and build things
[31:19] when times were good and the sun would
[31:21] make like make hay when the sun's
[31:23] shining, right? And um and this salary
[31:26] mindset almost takes us away from some
[31:28] of what's more natural for us where we
[31:30] have seasons of rest and seasons of work
[31:32] and and um and so it's just I it's it's
[31:35] really cool that you're saying that it
[31:38] sounds like you're happier with the
[31:40] instability of the income because you're
[31:42] managing because you've gotten
[31:43] comfortable with what this more natural
[31:46] flows if that's right. Yeah. And what
[31:47] I've learned over time is talking to
[31:49] most most other entrepreneurs, no matter
[31:52] how successful they are, we all have the
[31:54] same insecurities. Like, am I going to
[31:56] have enough money this month or where am
[31:59] I going to get where am I going to get
[32:00] more clients or like we all have the
[32:02] same insecurities. It's just that some
[32:04] people talk about it more than others.
[32:06] And if I had if if I had to do this over
[32:09] again, I probably would have just
[32:11] prepared more financially, like saved a
[32:13] little bit more. But really, at the end
[32:15] of the day, it's just learning by trial
[32:17] and error and talking to other people
[32:20] and finding your new tribe. So, when I
[32:22] left my full-time job, I I left all my
[32:24] co-workers, right? But I had to find a
[32:25] new sense of community and other people
[32:28] who were doing similar things and bounce
[32:30] ideas off other people instead of my
[32:33] co-workers, right? Because they weren't
[32:34] where I was. So, I think part of it,
[32:37] too, is just getting that support. And
[32:39] maybe it's from other entrepreneurs or
[32:41] other people in your niche or even your
[32:43] friends and family, but I find that that
[32:46] piece is something you have to
[32:47] consciously work towards.
[32:50] Yeah, it's tough finding community of
[32:52] entrepreneurs because so many of us are
[32:53] so busy and ambitious that and you don't
[32:56] we're not as vocal. Like you might see
[32:57] the podcaster, but it's hard to get a
[32:59] conversation with them over the phone,
[33:01] right? And so, um, so yeah, and it's so
[33:04] counterultural to leave. Like, even for
[33:06] me, I'm I'm like, I'm leaving Google to
[33:08] go do my own thing. And I can't tell you
[33:09] how many people have told me I'm an
[33:11] idiot. You know, don't don't go do it.
[33:12] Why are you leaving the Kushi Paycheck?
[33:13] And it's uh it's like uh how do you I I
[33:17] think you nailed it. It's like how do
[33:19] you find your tribe and make sure that
[33:20] you have people that are reinforcing
[33:21] where you want to be? Obviously, if you
[33:23] aren't comfortable with where you are.
[33:25] And so I'm I'm curious though if we
[33:27] could dig a little deeper into when did
[33:30] you feel comfortable with that niche of
[33:32] career coaching around health care
[33:34] professionals looking
[33:36] for their next their next thing maybe
[33:38] even remote work preparing for remote
[33:40] work and educating on these
[33:41] opportunities. I think it really came
[33:44] back from the results that my clients
[33:46] were seeing. So, in the beginning, I
[33:48] would say the first year or so, every
[33:49] time I would send something over, I
[33:52] would hold my breath because I would
[33:53] think, "Oh, they're going to think this
[33:54] is terrible. They're going to think this
[33:56] is not what they asked for. They're
[33:57] going to ask for their money back." And
[33:59] so, the more positive feedback I got and
[34:02] more importantly, the results when they
[34:03] were seeing them, it just reinforced to
[34:05] me that this was a service that people
[34:07] needed and it was something that I could
[34:09] deliver. And the to be honest, most
[34:12] people that come to me, they don't come
[34:14] to me because I have a certain
[34:16] certification or a certain degree. They
[34:18] come to me just because I'm a nurse and
[34:20] because they feel like I understand
[34:21] where they're at. So, a lot of times
[34:24] people will say like people outside of
[34:27] the industry will say, "Oh, well, I want
[34:29] to start a business. Do you think I
[34:30] should get a coaching certification or
[34:32] sort of do this and that?" And I always
[34:33] say it doesn't hurt, but to be honest,
[34:35] it's not something I'm currently being
[34:38] asked for, right? So just I think
[34:41] listening to what your clients are
[34:42] saying is always going to help. And so
[34:45] when I listen to what people are saying,
[34:47] it just gave me the confidence I needed
[34:49] to keep going. And there have been
[34:51] things that I've done wrong and mistakes
[34:53] I've made and money I have spent on
[34:55] things that looking back I shouldn't
[34:57] have spent the money on. But I think
[34:59] just trying new things is always
[35:01] something you should do as an
[35:02] entrepreneur. And just having the
[35:04] confidence that even if you fail, you
[35:06] can pick yourself up again and it's not
[35:08] the end of the world.
[35:11] Yeah. I I think that's one of the wisest
[35:14] things any business person's ever said
[35:17] is what what you just you leaned on your
[35:19] customers. If I can replay it back, is
[35:22] you took their feedback and you found
[35:24] what worked for them and you cared a lot
[35:26] about them. You loved your people that
[35:27] you were serving. And like that's that's
[35:30] where that nervousness comes. that
[35:31] you're giving something to them, you
[35:32] really hope it's valuable and then they
[35:34] give you the feedback and that's your
[35:36] best learning experience, right? And at
[35:37] the end of the day, if you keep doing
[35:38] that, if you keep learning what your
[35:41] customers or partners want, you're going
[35:43] to develop something really valuable for
[35:44] them. And having that nursing like those
[35:49] technical skills of nursing or like CPA
[35:51] licenses, those technical skills can
[35:53] really take you a far away. all the
[35:55] softer stuff like coaching
[35:56] certifications and like building your
[35:59] own business certifications um they're
[36:01] nice maybe you'll learn something but
[36:03] not
[36:03] necessarily the same at the same level
[36:07] as going through the fire like you did
[36:09] and I think that was part of the mindset
[36:11] I had to get around so when I was at
[36:13] when I was a nurse I was all about the
[36:15] certifications and the degrees like I
[36:17] have so many certifications now that
[36:19] have expired that I don't do anything
[36:21] with but at the time I felt like it was
[36:23] the only way to get ahead was actually
[36:27] um I have I used to be a lactation
[36:29] consultant. When when you talked about
[36:30] your wife pumping milk, I was like, "Oh,
[36:32] I that's one of the certifications I
[36:34] used to have." I got certified as a
[36:36] perinatal nurse. I had a project
[36:38] management certification at one point
[36:40] and I had all the things, right? But
[36:42] they didn't they didn't translate into
[36:45] being a business owner. Um, there are
[36:47] lots of people that have business
[36:49] degrees and they still struggle with
[36:50] entrepreneurship because I think there
[36:52] are certain things you probably can
[36:54] learn from business school and certain
[36:55] things that you just have to learn in
[36:57] real life. And that was a big learning
[37:00] curve for me too was that the the
[37:03] degrees helped me in my previous career,
[37:05] but they're not really something that
[37:07] help me now.
[37:10] Yeah. And can I just pause for a second?
[37:12] It's insane how many certifications
[37:14] there are for healthcare professionals.
[37:16] I think my wife like did like 20 of them
[37:18] and there was just Yeah. there. I mean,
[37:20] I'm over exaggerating, maybe 10 or
[37:22] something, but it's just like in
[37:23] everything like you said. I I had no
[37:25] clues like lactation consultant for my
[37:26] wife. It was like some kind of like
[37:30] kinesiology on how how do you move your
[37:33] body in this way, functional movements,
[37:34] movement links like like vestibular
[37:38] system stuff. You can like special. It's
[37:40] insane how many certification programs
[37:42] there are and it can be a real rabbit
[37:43] hole where at the end of the day you
[37:46] learn more from just practicing it,
[37:48] right? Yeah. Yeah. Um,
[37:52] so next on next I'm curious on how did
[37:57] how does that all become a successful
[37:59] podcast? Like where does where does that
[38:01] come from and how did how did that look
[38:03] in the pie? Now you're running your
[38:05] business, you're doing this podcast and
[38:08] you're starting to get some like actual
[38:09] live media coverage. Can you talk about
[38:11] that a little and how did that evolve?
[38:13] So the podcast really was just a
[38:15] platform for us to share. Initially it
[38:17] was to share the struggles we had at
[38:19] work and the burnout and the stress and
[38:21] how nobody was listening to us. So for
[38:24] me at the beginning it was therapy
[38:25] really to talk about this and know that
[38:28] I was sharing my story with other people
[38:30] and it resonated with them. And I
[38:32] remember the first episode we put out it
[38:34] was December 2019. We hit the publish
[38:37] button. We had told everybody we knew
[38:39] about it and we're like oh we got 30
[38:40] downloads. That's amazing. So it just
[38:43] really started from nothing, right? And
[38:44] then the pandemic hit and I would say
[38:47] about a year and a half into the
[38:48] podcast.
[38:51] So I was getting we were getting a lot
[38:53] of requests to be on media. It was
[38:55] probably about a year and a bit into the
[38:56] podcast and then we just started talking
[39:00] to guests, right? So we started to get
[39:02] guests on the podcast and the more media
[39:05] we did, the more guests wanted to come
[39:07] on and some of them were really
[39:08] high-profile. So, we even had um our
[39:11] former prime minister Justin Trudeau
[39:13] come on. We've had um nurse influencers.
[39:16] We've had politicians. So, now we've got
[39:19] to a point where we have easily 5 to 10
[39:22] pitches per week of people that want to
[39:24] come on our podcast and we have to be
[39:26] really selective and a lot of times we
[39:28] just wanted to be the two of us because
[39:30] that's how we got started and that's how
[39:31] people know us. So the podcast really
[39:34] took on a life of its own where it
[39:36] seemed like for the first time people in
[39:40] the media, the general public really
[39:41] took a keen interest in what nurses had
[39:43] to say because of co and everything. And
[39:45] we rode that wave. We took that
[39:47] opportunity. We said yes to everything.
[39:50] you know, we were so much out there that
[39:52] I think I would even sign onto my phone
[39:55] and at one point I'd be scrolling
[39:57] through Google and it was my own news
[39:59] article or my own interview that would
[40:01] come up being suggested to me. So, it
[40:03] was just really it was really advocacy.
[40:06] It was really talking about things that
[40:08] had been talked to talked about before.
[40:10] Traditionally, the media has always
[40:12] asked physicians for their opinions and
[40:14] not nurses. So, we just started saying,
[40:16] "Well, why haven't you asked a nurse
[40:17] about the nursing shortage? why are you
[40:19] asking a doctor about the nursing
[40:20] shortage? That just doesn't make sense.
[40:22] So, we really um put ourselves out there
[40:25] and I think that's really what made the
[40:28] podcast and that has what made the book
[40:29] into what it is. We essentially did a
[40:32] media tour for the book and that was
[40:35] really tiring but fun in itself like
[40:37] being on national media for the whole
[40:40] week leading up to the release of our
[40:42] book.
[40:45] So much so much to unpack there. But
[40:48] when did you when did you realize this
[40:51] was taking off? Like you obviously
[40:53] didn't expect it at all. It sounded like
[40:54] you're just kind of having fun with a
[40:56] friend and doing some some verbal
[40:58] therapy and doing it. It's fun to share.
[41:00] It's a really cool way to connect the
[41:01] podcast community, right? It's like
[41:02] you're sharing yourself and your
[41:03] thoughts with people and some people are
[41:05] interested. Um but when did was it COVID
[41:07] that spiked it or what was that catalyst
[41:10] do you think that suddenly you woke up
[41:12] and you said wow this is really growing
[41:14] faster than I expected? Well, we were
[41:16] doing a lot of topical things, right?
[41:18] So, every time there was something about
[41:19] CO, we were talking about it. So, when
[41:21] they finally declared it to be airborne,
[41:23] we talked about it. We had we had done
[41:26] an episode actually on a nurse in the
[41:28] States who lost her license due to a
[41:30] medication error that was hugely topical
[41:32] at the time. And so, we got a lot of US
[41:34] listeners from that one episode. And I
[41:37] think that it was just growing over time
[41:39] and us being consistent. So, a lot of
[41:41] podcasts I I read somewhere that the
[41:44] average podcast is only seven episodes.
[41:46] So, when we got to seven, I thought,
[41:48] well, this is great. Then then that
[41:50] turned into 50. Then that turned into
[41:51] 200. And I think now we're approaching
[41:53] our 200th episode. So, it's really just
[41:56] about consistency and putting yourself
[41:58] out there and eventually people find
[42:00] you, right? And we have our core base of
[42:02] listeners that we don't have to tell
[42:04] them. They know when the episode's
[42:06] coming out. They'll look for it. They'll
[42:07] send us feedback. So you you find your
[42:09] tribe too when it comes to podcast
[42:11] listeners and what they're looking for
[42:14] and they do interact with you and I
[42:16] think really when it hit me that we had
[42:18] done a lot was we went to this
[42:20] international nursing conference a
[42:22] couple years ago and co you know kept
[42:25] everyone at home so everything we've
[42:26] been doing was all all online even all
[42:28] the media and when we got to this
[42:30] conference we couldn't get anything done
[42:32] because people kept coming up to us and
[42:34] wanting to talk to us and wanting
[42:36] pictures with us and it was just a very
[42:38] weird feeling. So I think at that point
[42:41] when I realized at this international
[42:42] conference of nurses that we couldn't
[42:45] even attend any of the talks because
[42:47] people kept stopping to talk to us that
[42:49] maybe we were on to something here and
[42:51] it was just very surreal to me.
[42:56] I think that's so I that's so
[42:58] interesting and it is because we work in
[42:59] this little box, right? You're like just
[43:00] in front of your computer. You don't
[43:02] realize when you get in the world,
[43:02] people are see actually seeing this
[43:04] stuff. And most of these people don't
[43:06] comment or like you or send emails,
[43:08] right? But they're still seeing it. The
[43:09] amount of impressions you might be
[43:10] getting is insane. So that's amazing. I
[43:12] I I wanted I kind of skimmed over, but I
[43:14] want to highlight something really
[43:16] important that you said. It's a real
[43:18] shame like how highlighted doctors and
[43:21] physicians are in our industry without
[43:23] realiz like with in the healthcare in
[43:25] general without realizing the education
[43:27] and care of our nurses and other
[43:29] healthcare providers like physical
[43:30] therapists like my wife is way
[43:33] outperformed me in school and went to
[43:34] some of the top schools with 4.0's and
[43:36] it's sharper than a lot of the doctors I
[43:38] personally know. um and cares about her
[43:42] patients and researches and spends her
[43:45] time. And I know so many nurses and um
[43:48] and other healthcare providers like that
[43:50] that are better than doctors and a lot
[43:53] of the doctors I've known who just don't
[43:54] care as much. They got into the
[43:55] profession and got bored or you know
[43:57] there's the old saying like if you touch
[43:58] the patient you can bill them, right?
[44:00] Like there I I know some doctors that
[44:01] just do that. And I love that you're
[44:05] changing that perspective. It needs to
[44:06] happen because there there are so many
[44:09] nurses and uh and other healthcare
[44:11] providers just that are going to be
[44:13] better for people than doctors, right?
[44:15] Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a doctor
[44:16] versus nurse thing. We we each have our
[44:18] own area of specialty. I just think that
[44:21] traditionally nurses have been
[44:22] overlooked, underappreciated, underpaid.
[44:25] Whenever there's something that happens
[44:27] in the news lately, I found it's
[44:29] negative when it comes to nursing. So
[44:31] like a nurse who has committed a crime,
[44:33] a nurse who has killed a patient, a
[44:35] nurse who lost her license. So what I
[44:37] want to do also with all of this is show
[44:40] more positive stories when it comes to
[44:42] things like nurses have accomplished and
[44:44] the fact that the whole premise of our
[44:47] book was when we pitched it to the
[44:49] publisher and the lure agent, I said to
[44:51] them, can you name a famous nurse? And
[44:53] it can't be Florence Nightingale. And
[44:56] most people can't. And if they do think
[44:58] of someone, it's a fictional character
[45:00] like a nurse ratchet or someone who's
[45:02] been portrayed in popular culture but is
[45:05] not a real person. So we talk about in
[45:07] our book actually like here are some
[45:09] actual names of famous nurses who are
[45:11] still alive today because I find a lot
[45:14] of the nurses who are wellknown died a
[45:16] 100red years ago. Like there's just no
[45:18] modern nurse that people can look up to.
[45:20] So, we're like, here are some actual
[45:22] names that you might want to know a bit
[45:24] more about them and their stories. And
[45:27] you actually mentioned something about
[45:29] the book that almost everyone mentions
[45:31] who's not in nursing, and that's the
[45:33] ghost stories. We did not realize how
[45:36] popular and entertaining people would
[45:38] find them, but most nurses do have ghost
[45:40] stories, and it seems to be this
[45:42] subculture that, you know, people really
[45:45] want to know a lot more about.
[45:48] Yeah, I want to I want to ask questions.
[45:50] It's so interesting how these things go.
[45:52] Like I I love everything you're talking
[45:53] about and it's like I feel like I could
[45:54] talk to you for five hours, but I know
[45:56] we only have a little bit of time and so
[45:58] um I I kind of want to ask you like what
[46:00] your most interesting ghost story is,
[46:01] but I also don't want to give away
[46:02] because you talk about it in the book
[46:03] and I I love how you pitched that. I
[46:06] didn't know that you pitched it and then
[46:07] it's like the first chapter of the book
[46:08] of who's do you know any famous nurses?
[46:11] Like do you name it all? Like that's the
[46:13] intro, right? Um, and it was an
[46:15] interesting challenge because I didn't
[46:17] like I didn't even and that's crazy to
[46:20] me. You know, there's so many famous
[46:21] doctors and doctor personalities um, but
[46:24] not famous nurses. So, I'm curious what
[46:26] can we do? What would you recommend the
[46:28] layman does to support their nursing
[46:31] community or the healthcare community
[46:33] more? I think that there's a lot that
[46:36] the average person can do. You don't
[46:37] have to have a big platform. You don't
[46:39] have to be a person of influence or
[46:40] famous really to make a difference. So I
[46:42] think the first thing is that amplify
[46:45] what nurses are saying. So when we are
[46:48] um saying that nurses need to be treated
[46:51] better, that we shouldn't be abused on
[46:52] the job, whatever you can do on social
[46:55] media, do it. If you are um in touch
[46:58] with your local politician, bring this
[47:00] to their attention. When you're voting,
[47:02] vote strategically and look at what each
[47:04] politician has to say on their platform
[47:06] about healthcare and how they support
[47:08] healthcare workers. I also think that if
[47:11] you have received good care from a
[47:12] nurse, please let someone know higher up
[47:15] that you received good care and who this
[47:17] nurse was because there is a lot of
[47:19] stuff that goes on with, you know,
[47:21] nurses receiving complaints. But let's
[47:23] talk about the great things that nurses
[47:24] do too. And if you do have a platform,
[47:27] just highlight some of the issues that
[47:29] are affecting nurses and healthcare
[47:31] because at the end of the day, if we can
[47:34] create better work environments for
[47:35] healthcare workers and nurses, then
[47:38] patient care will be better as well. So,
[47:40] it's really for all of us, right? It's
[47:42] creating communities, creating
[47:44] environments where if we need to seek
[47:45] health care, that we know that there's
[47:47] going to be a nurse there who isn't
[47:48] burnt out, who is being treated well,
[47:50] who can give you her his or her 100%.
[47:54] And I think there are that's just a
[47:56] start, right? But there are many many
[47:58] things that the average person can do.
[48:02] And I love the personal appreciation
[48:03] like yeah, how can we amplify voices and
[48:05] do personal appreciation? And it's
[48:07] things like I uh I know in the hospitals
[48:09] my wife worked at like the amount of
[48:12] appreciation from the institution
[48:13] compared to what doctors or other
[48:15] employees might get is just absurd. Like
[48:17] I she would tell me about a time she got
[48:19] a pizza party and they didn't even give
[48:20] her a slice of pizza. They would cut a
[48:22] square out of the slice of pizza and
[48:25] give it to the nurses and then they'd
[48:26] take all the doctors out for like a
[48:27] steak dinner, right? And it just like
[48:30] the nurses are still putting up with the
[48:32] same the same stuff and they're taking
[48:33] care. They're actually more active by
[48:35] the bedside with these patients who are
[48:36] a lot of the times very ill or passing
[48:38] away or hard to take care of. And how
[48:40] how can we take more personal
[48:41] responsibility there? It's really good.
[48:42] Thank you for sharing. Okay, a few
[48:45] things I a few more things I want to
[48:46] cover. What did it look like or feel
[48:49] like when you got the liter?
[48:51] So you go on this lit this tour. So
[48:54] you're I want to follow it. You you go
[48:56] on COVID spikes, your podcast is taking
[48:58] off, your business is taking off, and
[49:01] now news outlets are starting to reach
[49:02] out to you to bring you on. And now you
[49:05] have a literary agent reach out to you
[49:07] and say, "Would you like to would you
[49:09] like to do a book?" Was a book ever on
[49:11] the radar on your mind? Like did you
[49:12] ever want to write a book about all of
[49:13] this or was that a surprise? I I always
[49:16] wanted to write a book, but I didn't
[49:17] know how to go about it. So people
[49:19] started approaching us with really
[49:20] shady, scammy deals. Like they would
[49:22] say, "You need to pay this much money
[49:25] for us to feature you in a single
[49:26] chapter in your book." And I was like,
[49:29] "Well, that's not what we want." Like,
[49:30] "No, I I don't think I should have to
[49:32] pay money upfront, and you're and you're
[49:34] not even writing about it." It was like
[49:36] It was crazy. It was like, "Pay $10,000
[49:38] for me to interview you for one hour,
[49:40] and then we'll have someone write a
[49:41] chapter in this book." And well, can we
[49:44] pause there for a second? There's a dark
[49:46] side of the whole podcasting and writing
[49:48] agency that's absurd. I've already know
[49:50] like as soon as I started my podcast, I
[49:52] can't tell you how many people reached
[49:53] out and were like, "We'll be on your
[49:55] podcast if you pay us a,000 bucks or
[49:57] we'll like we're happy to write your
[49:59] book for you and be your book coach if
[50:02] you give us $10,000 and we'll write a
[50:04] chapter." Like there's so much of that
[50:06] it's really scuffy. Anyone listening
[50:08] don't do that stuff. Do not That's not
[50:09] the way to do it. Yes. Do not pay any of
[50:11] your money upfront unless you are going
[50:13] down the self-publishing route. So, I
[50:15] won't name our literary agent, but when
[50:17] he approached us, the first thing I did
[50:18] was make sure that he was legit, and I I
[50:21] could see that he was and he'd worked
[50:23] with several best-selling authors and
[50:25] celebrities. And so, we, you know, that
[50:28] was the very first thing I did. And once
[50:29] once I decided he was legit, then we
[50:31] agreed to meet with him. But it was
[50:34] definitely not something I expected. So,
[50:36] I never expected to write a book with a
[50:38] major publisher. I never expected it to
[50:40] even chart, nevertheless, come number
[50:43] one. Like I was like I was about to
[50:45] start crying when I found out that we
[50:47] were number one. I was on a cruise. I
[50:49] was on a nursing cruise and I found this
[50:51] out and um my my uh podcasting partner
[50:55] called me and the the connection was
[50:57] really staticky and I was like what do
[50:59] you mean number one? I'm like number one
[51:01] like number one number one. And she's
[51:03] like number one. And that went back and
[51:04] forth for a while there but then once I
[51:06] took it in I was like oh my god like
[51:08] this actually happened. I didn't I
[51:11] didn't think it could happen. And
[51:12] everyone kept comparing us to how
[51:14] doctors would do because very few nurses
[51:16] have actually written books. And so it
[51:19] was just really surreal and I thought,
[51:20] "Oh my gosh, if anything happens to
[51:22] men's cruise and I don't make it home,
[51:24] at least this is my legacy that I can
[51:26] leave to the nursing community and to my
[51:28] kids that this is something I did in my
[51:30] lifetime that I never thought was
[51:32] possible."
[51:34] Congratulations. I That's amazing. And
[51:36] look, it all came from that one spark.
[51:38] Isn't it amazing that just looking back
[51:40] it was from your dissatisfaction with
[51:44] something and then you took that effort
[51:46] to go carve out something for yourself
[51:48] and make the place the world a little
[51:50] better and look where it's taken you so
[51:52] fast. What why five short years and yeah
[51:56] now that you mentioned it it's like it's
[51:58] been like three lifetimes of things
[52:00] happening in the last five years.
[52:03] Yeah, that's just absolutely amazing.
[52:05] But I got to pause because it threw me
[52:07] off. What the heck is a nursing cruise?
[52:09] Are you are you with a bunch of nurses?
[52:11] Are you taking care of a bunch of
[52:13] people? It is It is a nurse themed
[52:15] cruise for nurses to Well, it's
[52:19] officially branded as a as an education
[52:22] opportunity, but I think people just
[52:23] want to go drink and let loose. So, it
[52:25] is a cruise that is designed for nurses
[52:28] and non- nurses can come, but it's
[52:30] mainly for nurses. And it is it it was
[52:34] an entire I think it was four or five
[52:36] days of just like nurses hanging out and
[52:40] having fun and doing all the things that
[52:41] we couldn't do during the pandemic and
[52:45] um Oh, that sounds like a blast. Where
[52:47] was that? Where? So, that was out of uh
[52:48] it left out of Florida and it was a
[52:50] 5-day cruise and um where did it go? One
[52:54] of the islands in the Caribbean. It was
[52:55] great. So, I met a lot of nurse
[52:57] influencers and went to a couple talks
[53:00] and just kind of learned what other
[53:03] nurses do other than in my own little
[53:07] bubble. It's It's like a cruise. Like,
[53:09] you've been on a cruise, right? But it's
[53:10] just nurse Yeah. No, I've been a cruise.
[53:12] I'm just imagining everyone in scrubs
[53:13] for some reason. No, it's like no one
[53:14] was wearing scrubs. It was nurse themed.
[53:16] So, there were nurse themed like
[53:18] Jeopardy nights. There were uh Yeah,
[53:21] there was like there was like an I think
[53:23] it was like an American Idol
[53:24] competition. like there was fun stuff
[53:26] going on and yeah it was just really
[53:29] cool to see so many thousands of nurses
[53:32] together really just hanging out and it
[53:34] wasn't workrelated so I think part of
[53:36] the thing is we never a lot of nurses
[53:38] really never hang out with each other
[53:41] outside of work and so this was an
[53:43] opportunity to do that and do it with
[53:45] people from all over the world really.
[53:49] Yeah. And I I think that's just a really
[53:51] people don't realize that stuff exists
[53:53] and how how important it is to be in
[53:55] community with other people that have
[53:57] gone had similar experiences. That
[53:58] sounds I mean that sounds really cool. I
[54:00] was just curious. I've never heard of
[54:01] that before. Um but it makes sense. It
[54:03] obviously I know what a cruise is. Uh
[54:05] the I'm trying to figure out what's next
[54:08] for you. Like you kind of did it all.
[54:10] Yeah. You like you went you started a
[54:11] successful business. you started a
[54:14] rocket the rocket ship podcast that took
[54:16] you to like big media outlets and now
[54:18] have a number one book. What's next? Are
[54:20] you going to like go to the moon or
[54:21] what's what's you know like like where
[54:23] do you go from there if you accomplish
[54:25] all that in 5 years? That's insane.
[54:26] Congratulations. But what's what's on
[54:28] the docket for you? What are you excited
[54:29] about right now? So with with um that
[54:31] actually led to a lot of speaking
[54:33] engagements. So I'm looking to do more
[54:35] speaking and it doesn't even have to be
[54:37] in healthcare. I'm really excited to
[54:39] talk to people in other industries like
[54:40] tech because I think there are things
[54:42] like burnout and work toxic work
[54:45] environments that are universal to any
[54:47] industry. So doing more talks I think to
[54:50] share my knowledge is something I'm
[54:52] looking at. What we are looking at as a
[54:54] next step with a podcast is actually
[54:56] making a film. So we want to get into
[54:58] film making and creating things like
[55:00] that. And then on the uh career coaching
[55:03] side, I'm still working at building
[55:05] that. I'm looking at doing things for
[55:07] other industries like confidence
[55:09] coaching because what I noticed with a
[55:11] lot of the career coaching and interview
[55:13] coaching I was doing is that literally
[55:15] half the session was spent just building
[55:17] people's confidence and I think that's
[55:19] something that a lot of people lack in
[55:21] general especially women especially
[55:23] people of color working parents. I think
[55:26] this is something that a lot of people
[55:27] struggle with and I want to help people
[55:29] overcome some of that. So confidence
[55:31] coaching is something I'm looking at
[55:33] working on next.
[55:36] And also I should mention trying to
[55:38] pitch a second book which is in the
[55:40] works. So hopefully if anyone out there
[55:42] is listening we are looking at a wisdom
[55:44] of nurses part two in some way, shape or
[55:47] form.
[55:49] Is that going to be a continuation of
[55:50] the stories or what are you thinking
[55:52] there? Well, what we're trying to pitch
[55:53] right now is the wisdom of patients. So
[55:56] really talking about the fact that
[55:58] patients have a lot of expertise and
[56:00] they have a lot of they should have more
[56:02] control over how their healthcare looks.
[56:04] And so I think that's another piece
[56:05] that's missing right now.
[56:08] That'd be really cool. And I went down
[56:10] this really dark rabbit hole for a while
[56:11] of like um what people talk about on
[56:14] their deathbeds and all of that whole
[56:16] experience. Uh and how much I was
[56:19] curious like how much wisdom there is
[56:21] for everybody and like in our hardest
[56:23] times that's where we have our deepest
[56:26] truth, right? And so I I think that book
[56:28] I wouldn't buy that in a second. I think
[56:30] that'd be really fascinating to hear the
[56:32] patient experience because we're all
[56:33] going to go through that in some time.
[56:34] We're all going to be in a hospital and
[56:36] have some kind of injury and how do we
[56:38] persevere through those times and what
[56:41] does that look like? I don't think
[56:42] there's enough talk about that. That
[56:43] would be amazing. Um, so full sport, you
[56:45] already got a fire. Put me on the
[56:46] reading list or
[56:48] um that's a ton and so movie. What are
[56:52] you thinking about from the if you don't
[56:53] mind me digging in? What are you
[56:54] thinking about from the film side? Is it
[56:56] like episodes of your stories or back
[56:58] and forth or highlighting nurses? I
[56:59] think it'd be more of a documentary
[57:01] style, right? So, it'd be more of a
[57:02] documentary maybe interviewing nurses
[57:05] about um a topic such as the violence
[57:08] that they experienced in nursing and how
[57:10] that's not being talked about and so
[57:12] many nurses go through it and they that
[57:14] is a career-ending thing. So, if if it's
[57:17] not burnout, right, then there are some
[57:18] nurses that get hurt on the job and hurt
[57:20] so badly that they can never return to
[57:22] work and there's not a lot of talk about
[57:24] that. There's also not a lot of
[57:25] protection for nurses and healthcare
[57:27] workers against violence in the
[57:29] workplace. And I really I really feel
[57:31] strongly about this because I read a
[57:33] statistic which seems almost too crazy
[57:35] to be true, which is that more nurses
[57:38] get hurt on the job than police officers
[57:40] because we don't have any of the
[57:42] protection and we don't have the
[57:43] training to deal with things like this.
[57:47] Oh yeah. And I I remember my wife
[57:49] because you're dealing with disorder
[57:50] like a lot of the times your patients
[57:52] especially if you're in really intense
[57:53] situations they aren't conscious or they
[57:55] aren't themselves or their brains are
[57:57] damaged. My my wife focused on
[57:59] neurological disorders and she got bit
[58:02] by someone with some crazy disease once
[58:05] and we that was a huge scare for us.
[58:06] Like that could have been not just
[58:07] career ending like life debilitating.
[58:10] And that's the kind of risk healthc care
[58:12] providers are putting themselves at
[58:13] daily when they're caring for very sick
[58:15] people. And people do not talk about it
[58:17] enough. And also the um the
[58:20] post-traumatic stress from dealing with
[58:22] that stuff. If you're looking at very
[58:23] sick people all day, for her, it's
[58:25] really tough for her to get out of that
[58:27] mindset with me or with like if I'm an
[58:29] hour or two late and she was working on
[58:30] the liver floor where people would come
[58:31] in with alcohol disease all the time or
[58:33] car accidents when she was working on um
[58:36] um on those type of floors, she'd be
[58:37] like, "Did she die?" She'd like she
[58:39] would call the cops sometimes. She was
[58:40] so worried that she I got in a car
[58:42] accident. I'm like that you don't
[58:44] realize that's not normal, right? Like
[58:45] that's you're just seeing this intense
[58:47] population post-traumatic just it's it's
[58:49] so crazy what you all you all go through
[58:51] and thank you all. I feel like just like
[58:53] the army is like thank you for your
[58:55] service to the society as a whole. It's
[58:57] not an easy job. It's underpaid and
[58:59] underrepresented and um I love
[59:01] everything that you're doing in the
[59:03] space and so I think it's um curious
[59:06] before I close it all out what what's
[59:08] something my audience can do to support
[59:10] you. I'll put I'll put all the links
[59:11] below and everyone should follow you and
[59:13] buy everything that you release, but
[59:14] what else can we do to kind of support
[59:17] you and your community? Well, I mean,
[59:18] you can just follow me on social media.
[59:20] You can follow um the Grey Nurse
[59:22] podcast. You can follow my company,
[59:24] which is the RN resume. And of course,
[59:27] um if you're interested in the wisdom of
[59:28] nurses, it's available on Amazon. You
[59:31] can get it in hard copy, ebook, or audio
[59:33] book. Um and just just you know support
[59:37] your local nursing association and
[59:40] politically I would say just again look
[59:42] up what your local politicians are
[59:44] doing. What is their platform around
[59:45] healthcare and that would really go a
[59:47] long way. Um there's so many things that
[59:50] could be done but those are just some
[59:51] some of the things that are coming off
[59:53] the top of my head.
[59:55] Okay. Well make sure everyone does that
[59:57] and I want to end with just a few fun
[59:59] questions. First is I have a lot of
[1:00:01] leaders that watch this like CFO CEOs.
[1:00:03] What's what's your productivity tip now
[1:00:06] that you probably have more inbound than
[1:00:07] you can deal with? Like how do you sort
[1:00:09] someone like me reaching out to you to
[1:00:11] do a podcast episode versus probably the
[1:00:12] thousands of other people looking for
[1:00:14] your time and how are you sort of how do
[1:00:16] you how do you organize your time right
[1:00:17] now? Yeah, so I've been following a lot
[1:00:18] of people on LinkedIn when it comes to
[1:00:20] productivity. So I use Trello now to
[1:00:23] manage my inbound and uh outbound leads
[1:00:26] and I have templates now. also templated
[1:00:28] responses when someone reaches out to
[1:00:30] me. I um you know I have shortcuts on my
[1:00:33] keyboard which I learned about. I had a
[1:00:36] virtual assistant for a little time
[1:00:37] there um just to kind of manage things
[1:00:40] and booking calendars. I use Calendarly
[1:00:43] to have people book so I don't need to
[1:00:44] do all the back and forth. Uh I'm not
[1:00:47] super super techy so I will say I'm sure
[1:00:50] there's a lot I could be doing but those
[1:00:51] are some things I do to manage my time.
[1:00:55] Um, yeah, there's I'm sure there's a lot
[1:00:57] more out there that I'm not doing right
[1:00:59] now.
[1:01:01] No, I mean that's still great that
[1:01:03] you're still managing it proactively
[1:01:04] through and I think that's important for
[1:01:06] everyone here of at some point you just
[1:01:08] get too much inside and using these
[1:01:11] tools is very helpful. And then
[1:01:12] something fun, what what was your
[1:01:14] favorite snack that you used to get like
[1:01:16] at in a hospital cafeteria? Was there
[1:01:19] anything that you really enjoyed? So,
[1:01:21] one of the one of the places that I did
[1:01:23] not like working at, literally the only
[1:01:25] thing I missed was the turkey wraps that
[1:01:27] they had in the cafeteria cuz they were
[1:01:29] freshly made and they would put them in
[1:01:30] the panini press and those were really
[1:01:32] good. So, I missed those. One of the
[1:01:34] things I loved eating on night shifts
[1:01:36] was hot wings. Like, we would order hot
[1:01:38] wings and we would eat them at the back
[1:01:40] of the nursing station, but because it
[1:01:42] was so messy, we would wear those
[1:01:43] hospital medical grade gloves and eat
[1:01:45] them. And then we would put them in the
[1:01:47] little styrofoam cups that you get for
[1:01:50] water and we would just eat them in the
[1:01:51] corner. Um, and sometimes that's all we
[1:01:54] had to eat during the night shift
[1:01:56] because it got so busy. But I I miss
[1:01:57] some of those days and eating those hot
[1:01:59] wings. I should I should go do it again.
[1:02:02] Yeah, that sounds fun. In the press, my
[1:02:04] wife had a like an Oreo dessert. It was
[1:02:07] like this little like pudding with Oreo
[1:02:08] and whipped cream on top of it at one of
[1:02:10] her places and I'd visit her just for
[1:02:12] that. I don't know why I feel like
[1:02:13] always in a hospital just one little
[1:02:14] thing you can find that's like and the
[1:02:16] rest of it just captures it's getting
[1:02:18] better. Yeah. And then he said trash.
[1:02:21] Yeah. Uh and then what's the one thing
[1:02:24] you do for rest and relaxation when
[1:02:26] you're off and you don't aren't dealing
[1:02:27] with the noise of everything else? I
[1:02:30] have been prioritizing self-care a lot
[1:02:31] more now that I'm not getting up at 5
[1:02:33] and working until midnight. So I really
[1:02:36] really enjoy going to the spa. So that's
[1:02:38] my thing now. I like going to the spa
[1:02:40] and relaxing. I do um Pilates. I do hot
[1:02:44] yoga just to keep my body moving. And uh
[1:02:48] I also I also get my hair and my nails
[1:02:50] done. So these are things these are all
[1:02:52] things that I was not doing before. And
[1:02:55] I remember actually about four years
[1:02:57] ago, maybe four or five years ago, I was
[1:02:59] asked to come onto a podcast about
[1:03:02] hobbies. It was a podcast just about
[1:03:04] showcasing people's different hobbies.
[1:03:06] And I never went on it because literally
[1:03:08] I did not have any hobbies at that time.
[1:03:11] I was too busy. I was too in the thick
[1:03:12] of it to have time to do anything except
[1:03:15] watch Netflix. And I don't really think
[1:03:16] that's a hobby. So now I actually have
[1:03:18] time for hobbies. And right now I'm
[1:03:21] training for a 10K. So like I have
[1:03:23] things that I like to do that are just
[1:03:25] for me and have nothing to do with
[1:03:28] work. That's great. No, that's awesome.
[1:03:30] And I'm glad you're finding the space
[1:03:31] for that now. And hard same. Hard same
[1:03:34] there. I've definitely have been in the
[1:03:36] situation where there's no time for
[1:03:37] hobbies and I think it's so important
[1:03:38] for everyone. Well, hey, appreciate it.
[1:03:40] I already took so much of your time. I
[1:03:41] know you're really busy, but it was just
[1:03:43] really awesome getting to meet you and
[1:03:44] get getting to learn more and um I'm
[1:03:46] really looking forward to everyone
[1:03:48] hearing this episode and it's going to
[1:03:49] be a ton of value and everyone go by buy
[1:03:51] the book and hopefully we can have you
[1:03:52] on when the next book launch. Yes,
[1:03:53] here's the book again just so we can see
[1:03:56] it.
[1:03:57] Thanks. I'll put make sure to put a big
[1:03:59] picture of it right at the beginning of
[1:04:00] the video too. So, hey, have a great
[1:04:02] rest of your day. Okay. Thanks so much.