YouTube transcript
Video ID: RpEyWvY20wM
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] this $600,000 salary they make
[0:03] evaporates pretty quick when you've got
[0:05] a lifestyle like that. If you are just a
[0:07] W2 employee to max out your 401k, that's
[0:10] it. And stop trying to figure out other
[0:12] ways. That's kind of what you got to do.
[0:14] I still have my same little goals that I
[0:16] printed out when I was, you know, 18
[0:18] years old and they're still in my
[0:20] wallet. I've accomplished all of those
[0:22] goals, every one of them, and you know,
[0:24] before I was at the age of 35. Welcome
[0:26] back to Ambition Aligned. Today we're
[0:28] talking about one of the most common
[0:30] questions I get from high earners,
[0:31] entrepreneurs, and anyone chasing
[0:33] freedom. How do I actually keep more of
[0:35] what I earn and build a life that lets
[0:37] me be present, not just profitable? My
[0:40] guest today is my good friend and
[0:41] longtime mentor, Shane Clark, a CPA who
[0:43] walked away from burnout and 75-hour
[0:45] work weeks to build a thriving family-
[0:47] centered tax practice in Los Angeles. In
[0:49] this episode, Shane breaks down what
[0:50] really matters when it comes to
[0:52] financial freedom. Why starting your own
[0:53] business is a tax strategy most W2
[0:55] earners never consider. How lifestyle
[0:58] creep, not taxes, is often your biggest
[1:00] hidden expense. We also talk about the
[1:01] practical steps to building your own
[1:03] version of enough without sacrificing
[1:04] impact, income, or your time with your
[1:06] kids. This conversation is practical,
[1:08] tactical, and loaded with wisdom from
[1:10] someone who's done it the right way
[1:12] without chasing headline or hype. Let's
[1:14] dive in. Hey, so we're on. So, hey
[1:16] Shane, it's great to see you, man.
[1:17] Thanks for taking the time to do this
[1:19] with me. I mean, we've known each other
[1:20] for over 10 years now, and I broke you
[1:22] into talking on this podcast, so I
[1:24] appreciate it. All right. Well, it's
[1:26] great to see you, too, Devin. I know
[1:27] it's been a minute, but it's always a
[1:29] pleasure, and you know, you're a you're
[1:31] a great guy. So, of course, and do
[1:32] anything that you want me to do. Oh, I
[1:34] appreciate it. I'm looking forward to
[1:35] coming down, too, in uh in a few weeks.
[1:38] Hopefully, we can find some time when
[1:39] I'm down in LA. But I'm curious. I think
[1:40] everyone on the on the show is going to
[1:42] really appreciate your background and
[1:44] your story uh because you've done it. I
[1:47] mean, you we could go a lot of different
[1:48] directions, but it's really fascinating.
[1:49] You you run a tax practice um over in
[1:52] the Los Angeles area, but you came from
[1:55] a bigger firm and I know there's always
[1:57] a lot of people looking at do they go
[1:59] the corporate route or going
[2:01] entrepreneurship or starting their own
[2:03] practice and what that looks like and
[2:04] it'd be fun if you shared your journey a
[2:06] little bit for everyone. So, what was
[2:08] that? What was that? What what got you
[2:10] going into and as a CPA first of all and
[2:13] and going to the firm? Yeah. You know, I
[2:16] thought to myself, all right, you know,
[2:18] when I was graduating high school, I was
[2:19] trying to figure out, you know, what do
[2:20] you want to do with your life, right?
[2:22] And uh I wrote down all my goals. I kind
[2:25] of mapped out what I imagined my life
[2:27] would be like and what I could
[2:28] accomplish by the age of 35, which is
[2:31] great we're having this today because I,
[2:33] you know, I am 35 now and it's, you
[2:35] know, nice to kind of look back and see
[2:36] how things went and did I do what I
[2:39] wanted to do or not do. But, you know, I
[2:42] always wanted to, you know, invest in
[2:45] real estate. That was what I initially
[2:46] wanted to do. You know, when I was
[2:48] graduating high school, you know, you
[2:49] read books and like, oh, how do you get
[2:51] wealthy and but not work that hard?
[2:53] Well, it'd be cool if you own a bunch of
[2:55] rental properties, right? So, that's
[2:57] kind of where I started. It's like,
[2:59] okay, that's my goal. And, you know,
[3:00] what's a good way to get there? Well,
[3:01] how can I learn a lot about the real
[3:03] estate industry, you know, while having
[3:05] a good profession that earns good money
[3:07] that teaches you good skills to be
[3:09] better? Uh, you know, and I thought to
[3:11] myself like, well, who are the different
[3:14] advisors to real estate professionals,
[3:16] right? There's, you know, you've got
[3:17] attorneys, maybe you've got like real
[3:19] estate agents, you know, you've
[3:20] obviously got a lot of tax implications
[3:22] to being, you know, a real estate
[3:24] professional. So, I thought if I could
[3:25] slot myself in as one of those, you
[3:27] know, advisors to a real estate
[3:29] professional and learn some stuff along
[3:31] the way and have a good job, you know,
[3:33] that would be a good foundation to what,
[3:34] you know, I wanted to do. So, that's
[3:36] kind of the starting point. Uh I went to
[3:39] Cal State Northridge for college,
[3:42] graduated in 2012, you know, and from
[3:44] there I did pretty well and I had a
[3:46] number of offers from different firms,
[3:47] you know, I had offers from big four
[3:49] firms, you know, and smaller firms, but
[3:51] ultimately, you know, I decided that the
[3:54] best education that I could get in the
[3:56] area that I wanted would be a midsize
[3:59] firm because the type of clients that
[4:01] they would have are the type of person
[4:03] that I, you know, thought I wanted to be
[4:04] in the future. So that's kind of where I
[4:06] started. So I started a firm called RDZ
[4:09] which has since merged with
[4:12] Armenino and I started working in the
[4:14] real estate department there and you
[4:16] know I worked there for about three and
[4:18] a half years and uh you know I worked
[4:20] really hard many many hours a lot of
[4:23] 75hour weeks and I was commuting you
[4:25] know an hour an hour and a half each way
[4:27] just cuz like traffic is so terrible. Uh
[4:30] and uh after doing that for a while, you
[4:33] just got really burned out. You know,
[4:35] it's like I'm sure you're well aware of
[4:37] how many hours you have to work at these
[4:39] big accounting firms and you know how
[4:41] stressful it could be. So, you know,
[4:42] after that, uh I went to another more
[4:46] local firm to where I lived, you know,
[4:48] co-res, so another midsize firm. Uh you
[4:51] know, and at that I I decided I didn't
[4:53] necessarily need to do the the real
[4:55] estate thing. You know, it was
[4:56] interesting. you know, I learned some
[4:57] things, but it wasn't necessarily my
[4:59] goal at that point anymore. I just
[5:02] wanted to affirm that, you know, I could
[5:04] be more comfortable at, you know, not
[5:06] have to work as crazy hours. And I think
[5:09] that it wasn't so much that the firm was
[5:12] putting pressure on you to work a lot of
[5:14] hours. Although there is some aspect of
[5:16] that, I think it's a pressure that I put
[5:18] upon myself to work as hard as I could
[5:19] just cuz I was ambitious and wanted to
[5:22] get promoted early and do all these
[5:23] things. You know, when you're in
[5:25] college, you say, "Oh, yeah. I'm not
[5:26] afraid to work hard. I could work 75
[5:28] hours a week, you know, no problem. I'm
[5:29] going to do whatever it takes, you know,
[5:31] get ahead and do good in my job, in my
[5:34] life, and be successful. And then the
[5:36] reality of working, you know, multiple
[5:38] 75 hours a week for like months at a
[5:40] time is a lot different than, you know,
[5:42] what you imagine it to be. I could do
[5:44] anything. Well, you can, but you know,
[5:46] it takes a toll. Then you're stressed,
[5:48] then you don't sleep well and you don't
[5:49] do anything fun and it's like, what's
[5:51] the point of all that, you know? So, so
[5:53] after I left Haradino and I started
[5:56] working at Cone Reszi, a different
[5:58] attitude I felt like where, you know,
[6:00] I'm going to go in there, I'm going to
[6:01] do a good job, but I'm going to put
[6:02] boundaries up and I'm not going to try
[6:04] and take on all these extra projects to
[6:06] do good or to, you know, make myself
[6:09] seem like I'm more valuable or whatever
[6:11] it would be. You know, ultimately I
[6:13] found that you when you take on less
[6:15] projects and you do a better job on the
[6:17] projects that you do have, you end up
[6:19] performing better than just doing as
[6:21] much as you possibly can. So, you know,
[6:23] I had a I had a good time at Tone
[6:26] Resnick. I worked there for another, you
[6:27] know, about four years where I was a
[6:30] manager. And then after that, uh, my dad
[6:34] has a small tax firm in Burbank. It's
[6:37] called H&R Clark, which is where I work
[6:39] now. uh and you know he was looking to
[6:42] slow down and you know eventually
[6:44] retire. So I came in there and started
[6:47] working with him and I've been there for
[6:50] I think five years now and uh you know I
[6:53] do more than half the clients within the
[6:55] firm. you know, we've been growing. Um,
[6:58] and it's it's kind of even a better work
[7:01] life balance than I had, you know, at
[7:03] co-resnik. You could determine your own
[7:05] hours, which clients you want to take.
[7:07] And our firm specializes in individuals
[7:10] in the entertainment industry. I would
[7:11] say we're a high volume, relatively
[7:14] lowcost firm, which is great because
[7:16] there's not a lot of other firms that
[7:18] service individuals like that. There's a
[7:20] lot of big firms who can certainly do a
[7:22] good job, but they're going to charge
[7:23] you an arm and a leg. And there are some
[7:25] very small inexpensive firms who, you
[7:27] know, may charge less but would almost
[7:29] surely do a worse job than what we do.
[7:32] So I feel like we have a very good nice
[7:34] lynch in our in our area, you know,
[7:36] individuals in the entertainment
[7:38] industry, many many clients at a
[7:40] reasonable fee and we give a good a good
[7:42] product and a a good advice and you know
[7:45] most people normal people with normal
[7:48] jobs, you know, maybe a house and some
[7:49] kids, you know, they need the help and
[7:52] we're there to help them. And I think we
[7:54] do a good job and everyone's very
[7:55] appreciative of it. So I guess that's in
[7:58] a nutshell the story of you know
[8:00] graduating college until present of
[8:02] where I'm at now and uh and I like it. I
[8:06] would say my life is very good and I'm
[8:07] very content and and happy with where
[8:10] things ended up so far. Yeah. So it was
[8:13] so interesting. I'm curious what what
[8:14] was a triggering event
[8:17] from going from the firm to going to you
[8:20] know to it's a smaller you know starting
[8:23] your own thing or working with your
[8:24] working with your dad which is
[8:25] essentially starting your own thing in a
[8:27] lot of ways right it's it's much more
[8:28] entrepreneurial than taking the solid
[8:31] path and making partner at a conresic or
[8:34] a deote or a KPMG
[8:37] yeah I don't think there was any like
[8:38] certain you know point or anything like
[8:40] that I just thought I thought thought it
[8:41] was time I thought I was prepared you I
[8:43] thought I was ready, you know, to do my
[8:45] own thing. Um, you know, and what's nice
[8:47] about being in a smaller firm is you get
[8:49] to, you know, actually help people. You
[8:51] know, when you work at a large firm and
[8:53] you, you know, uh, help these large, you
[8:56] know, do taxes for large companies, you
[8:58] know, you're providing a little bit of
[9:00] value, you know, but you're not
[9:01] necessarily working with the owners, you
[9:03] know, you're working with the CFOs and
[9:05] you're kind of doing their taxes in a
[9:07] timely manner and doing the correct
[9:09] thing, but you're not necessarily
[9:11] helping people. And and that's one thing
[9:13] that I really like burn and what I do
[9:16] now is that you actually feel like
[9:17] you're helping people. You know, every
[9:18] single day when I talk to people, they
[9:20] say, "Wow, thanks Shane. You know, I
[9:22] really appreciate what you're doing. I
[9:23] had never thought about that before. You
[9:25] know, thanks for helping me save a
[9:26] little bit of money." And it's, you
[9:27] know, a good feeling to have someone
[9:29] say, "Hey, thanks. Good job. I
[9:30] appreciate you, you know, on a on a
[9:32] daily basis." So, um, yeah, I like it.
[9:36] I'm happy there. wasn't necessarily some
[9:38] triggering event that made me switch
[9:40] over, but uh it's it's a good place to
[9:42] be and and since I, you know, started
[9:45] working at Ancient Arts, you know, we've
[9:48] done a lot of great things, too. You
[9:50] know, my dad was kind of stuck in 20th
[9:54] century for the 20 19th. No, yeah, the
[9:57] 20th century. We're in the 20th century.
[9:59] I hope not the 19th. Imagine like the
[10:01] big quills and you know
[10:05] but you know we've done a lot of good
[10:06] things you know we switched our phone
[10:08] systems have you board rules we're not
[10:10] allowed to like a paper office anymore
[10:13] we do a lot more things remotely which
[10:15] allow us to be more they should kind of
[10:17] restructure all the you know employees
[10:18] in the office and what everybody does um
[10:21] you know in a way that I think I think
[10:23] everybody's happy we provide a good
[10:24] service and uh you know we've grown the
[10:27] business quite a bit uh you know in the
[10:29] last few years And um from here, you
[10:32] know, we'll continue to grow it. Uh but
[10:34] I think the the goal at this stage is
[10:37] just to kind of continue on with what
[10:39] we're doing. You know, we don't have a
[10:40] lot of aspirations to open up multiple
[10:43] offices, you know, or anything like
[10:45] that. Just you continue on, keep doing a
[10:48] good job and uh you know, keep going,
[10:50] keep pushing forward.
[10:53] Yeah, that's great. Well, something that
[10:54] I love about your story is it seems
[10:56] everything had intention. And something
[10:58] I remember when you were my mentor back
[10:59] in college forever ago, it feels like
[11:02] was you had something you showed me
[11:04] where you showed me like, hey, and and
[11:06] then advice you gave me of you you like,
[11:08] hey, if you have a goal, write it down
[11:10] and keep it in your wallet or keep it in
[11:11] your pocket or something to that effect
[11:13] and keep looking at it. and you and you
[11:15] had a similar goal of like you're going
[11:16] to get a house and you wind up buying a
[11:19] house in Northridge pretty early on and
[11:21] be and because you had that constant
[11:23] reminder and that kind of visualization.
[11:25] Same thing throughout your career. It
[11:26] sounds like you intentionally went into
[11:28] accounting because you wanted you wanted
[11:31] to pursue this real estate advisor path
[11:33] then as you realized you're okay passing
[11:35] on that but still doing it maybe for fun
[11:37] or for personal lifestyle that you
[11:40] wanted to be a good accountant. So you
[11:42] chose a firm that would match that for
[11:43] you to serve people instead of just
[11:45] businesses. Like if you went to a big
[11:47] firm, you would have been in stuck in
[11:48] corporate tax forever. And then and then
[11:51] you had that plan overall. So when it
[11:53] was time to transition, you made that
[11:56] you made that step kind of seamlessly
[11:58] rather than having an existential crisis
[12:00] that a lot of people would have when
[12:01] they kind of go get derailed from a big
[12:03] corporate event. And so what what taught
[12:05] you that intentionality,
[12:07] Shane? Where'd you pick that up from? I
[12:10] don't know. I that's a good question. I
[12:12] think in high school I took this class
[12:13] called like
[12:14] a it was called like investments in
[12:17] investing or something like that and you
[12:19] know he encouraged us to read you know
[12:21] all the you know rich dad poor and all
[12:23] those kind of self-help type books and
[12:25] you know it just motivated me to have a
[12:27] direction. I think I've always had some
[12:29] kind of a direction and motivation. Um,
[12:32] you know, I kind of started out my
[12:34] journey just deciding, you know, what
[12:37] type of lifestyle do you want to live
[12:39] and what do you need to do to get there?
[12:43] You know, many of my friends, you know,
[12:45] from high school and beyond would say,
[12:48] "Oh, I'm interested in, you know, art
[12:51] history, so I'm going to get a degree in
[12:52] art history." Or, you know, I really
[12:53] liked my sociology class. I'm going to
[12:56] major in sociology. But I never I never
[12:58] thought about it that way. I always
[12:59] thought, okay, what's my goal? Well, I'd
[13:01] love to have a comfortable lifestyle
[13:04] where I could have a family and I could
[13:05] have a reasonably nice house, not be
[13:08] worried about money, be able to save for
[13:10] retirement, you know, support my kids,
[13:13] have kids one day, you know, pay for
[13:15] their college, you know, not worry about
[13:18] the little things, go on vacations and
[13:20] do all those sorts of things. And if
[13:22] ideally have a relatively good work life
[13:24] balance at the same time. And if you
[13:27] start with those goals in mind, then you
[13:28] just kind of work backwards on what's
[13:29] the career that's going to get you there
[13:31] and you know what do you need to do to
[13:33] accomplish those goals and then you know
[13:36] do it one little baby step at a time and
[13:38] you mentioned that I had my little goals
[13:40] in my wallet. I don't have my wall in
[13:41] front of me but it's a little reminder
[13:43] checked off you know which ones that
[13:45] I've met. you know, initially many of
[13:46] them were like, I'm going to own five
[13:48] rental properties, you know, so I don't
[13:50] have five rental properties, but you
[13:52] know, the other things about um you
[13:55] know, being a a partner at a firm or uh
[13:58] having a certain dollar amount of net
[14:00] assets or a certain dollar amount that
[14:02] I'm you know, earning per year. Um I've
[14:05] accomplished all of those goals, you
[14:06] know, every one of them. And you know,
[14:08] before I was at the age of 35.
[14:11] I think that having your goals, it only
[14:15] couldn't possibly hurt you. And if you
[14:16] break them up and like, you know, one
[14:18] little step at a time, you're like,
[14:20] "Okay, when I'm 18, I'm going to do this
[14:22] and I'm going to go to college. I'm
[14:23] going to get this kind of GPA, you know,
[14:26] how can I ensure that I get a good job
[14:28] out of college while I get a good GPA?"
[14:30] you know, as you were I was too. You
[14:32] know, we both became presidents of
[14:34] business honors association at Sea Sun,
[14:36] which I'm very proud of, but I I think
[14:39] you were very proud of as well. Yeah.
[14:40] Well, I love that season. Yeah. So, it
[14:43] was just like little little steps along
[14:44] the way. It's like, okay, I'm in
[14:46] college, you know, what can I do to do
[14:47] better and get where I want to be? You
[14:50] know, once I have good grades and I have
[14:52] all these offers on the table, which one
[14:54] are you going to accept? you know, you
[14:55] went to Deote, you went to a big four
[14:57] firm, you know, I had offers from big
[14:59] four firms which I turned down to go to
[15:01] a firm that I thought would closely
[15:02] align with my goals in the long run, you
[15:05] know, and I think it all worked out well
[15:06] because if I had gone to a big four,
[15:08] even if I specialize in real estate, it
[15:11] would be like giant REITs and you how
[15:13] much of that knowledge is going to
[15:14] translate here to my own, you know,
[15:16] knowledge and my own real estate
[15:17] investing that I could, you know, use in
[15:19] my own life. And I didn't think that
[15:20] there would be enough of a connection
[15:22] there. So, I chose, you know, a less
[15:24] prestigious firm to learn what I wanted
[15:27] to learn to then help further accomplish
[15:29] my goals. And now, as I sit here at
[15:32] 35, I I really feel like I've
[15:34] accomplished everything that I wanted to
[15:36] at this stage. And from here on out, you
[15:38] know, I won't have another set of 15
[15:41] years worth of goals. I don't plan on,
[15:43] you know, becoming a billionaire or
[15:45] opening up like 25 new offices and grow
[15:48] us as much as we possibly can. this
[15:50] stage, my goal is to uh you know, enjoy
[15:53] my life, spend time with my kids. I've
[15:55] got a four-year-old and a six-year-old,
[15:57] and uh you know, everyone always says
[15:59] this is the the time of your life where
[16:01] you're going to enjoy it, and you want
[16:02] to spend the most time and build those
[16:04] memories with your kids. And that's what
[16:06] I do. I'm here for dinner every single
[16:08] day. I mean, my home office, 5:00, hits,
[16:10] I just turn my computer off and we go
[16:12] have dinner. We might go in the pool
[16:14] afterwards or play in the backyard, you
[16:16] know, give the kids a bath, put them to
[16:18] bed every single day. And um my wife is
[16:22] a nurse just like you. Yeah. So we have
[16:24] a lot in common. I got a lot in common
[16:26] in Devon. And uh you know, she works
[16:29] three 12-hour shifts every single week.
[16:31] Uh so essentially 3 days a week, you
[16:34] know, I'm a single parent. You know, I
[16:36] get the kids she leaves before the kids
[16:38] get up and she gets home after the kids
[16:39] go to bed. And uh and I I enjoy the time
[16:42] that I have with them, you know, just
[16:44] with me me and the kids. You know, if
[16:45] it's a weekend, every single weekend on
[16:47] a Saturday or Sunday, I'm going to find
[16:49] something for us to do. We're going to
[16:50] go to the zoo or we're going to go to
[16:51] the aquarium or we're going to, you
[16:53] know, schedule some playins with some
[16:55] other kids or we're going to go out and
[16:56] play basketball. You know, every single
[16:58] weekend, I'm intentionally doing
[17:00] everything I can to to spend as much
[17:02] time with my kids as I can.
[17:05] So Deon, why don't you tell me a little
[17:07] bit about uh about you and you know you
[17:09] you recently uh had some changes in your
[17:12] life and what was the impetus to that
[17:14] because I' I'd be interested to hear
[17:15] your side. Yeah. No, I'll definitely
[17:17] tell you. Yeah. And thanks for the
[17:19] question too, man. Um, and something
[17:20] just to call out there is something I've
[17:22] always respected you for and something
[17:23] that we were one of the few people I
[17:25] think I can count them on one or two
[17:26] hands where I've like you've been really
[17:28] remarkably consistent over the last 10
[17:30] years of our friendship of you've always
[17:32] just been a great friend but you've
[17:33] always just you stuck through to your
[17:35] goals but without sacrificing your
[17:37] values of taking care of your family
[17:38] taking care of your friends making time
[17:39] for others mentoring others and just
[17:42] utmost respect for you in that and I
[17:43] think everyone can learn from that that
[17:45] setting that go those goals and the
[17:46] intention are so important and it's part
[17:48] but partly has inspired me of going out
[17:51] to do my own thing, leaving Google to go
[17:54] be in a consulting firm. I'll be joining
[17:55] this consulting firm, Principal
[17:56] Consulting Group, and uh and
[17:59] specifically focusing on adding value to
[18:02] founders and CEOs and CFOs, like real
[18:04] people, rather than making Google a
[18:06] couple more billion dollars. Like I was
[18:08] I I remember I got uh I saved Google
[18:11] like maybe $400 million on one of their
[18:13] processes and I got a you know $1,000
[18:15] check for it because 400 million doesn't
[18:18] matter. It doesn't matter. It's Google.
[18:20] They just like, "Thanks, buddy." You
[18:22] know, um, but the bureaucracy in those
[18:24] is, it's crazy. You can save a company
[18:26] like that 400 million and get a small
[18:28] check. But if you save if you help
[18:30] someone like a CEO that you might know
[18:32] or even just a regular person on
[18:35] financial coaching or strategic advisory
[18:37] work or business coaching, you you could
[18:39] get like save them a couple thousand
[18:42] bucks a month. It's life-changing. like
[18:44] that's like, "Oh, now I can afford to
[18:45] take my kids to college or now I can
[18:47] actually buy the house or hey, now I
[18:49] like I was able to figure out how to
[18:51] make my team stronger because of you or
[18:54] all of those things are more rewarding.
[18:55] So, I'm entering that season of life of
[18:57] I'm not chased in the titles or I I got
[18:59] the experience that I wanted to get and
[19:01] now I just want to have an impact and
[19:03] and also have that flexibility to do
[19:05] similar to you. Like I want to be
[19:06] present with my daughter. She's turning
[19:08] five this week and I really want to have
[19:12] the next 10 years of work close into her
[19:14] teenage years and her adulthood. I want
[19:16] I want to always be that present figure
[19:18] while and I think you can still have a
[19:20] fulfilling and fruitful career while you
[19:22] do that. You don't need to burn the
[19:24] candle at both ends
[19:27] and also I'll also be something I think
[19:28] you both and I are both passionate
[19:29] about. And if you're ever up here, I
[19:30] wish I was down there. I'll be teaching.
[19:32] I'll be at uh teaching at high uh uh
[19:35] local high schools and community
[19:36] colleges to give back because I'm such
[19:38] an avid believer as I know you are of
[19:40] community college and state college
[19:41] systems and good high school education.
[19:43] Education doesn't have to be as
[19:45] expensive as people make it out to be
[19:46] and you can still have great careers is
[19:47] worth testament to both testament
[19:50] testimonies too. Right. Yeah. Something
[19:53] you know you were talking about respect
[19:54] for me Deon but you know I always say
[19:56] you know only the utmost respect for
[19:58] you. you know, you say, "Well, well, I'm
[20:00] consistent over here, you know, and I
[20:02] know you don't ever talk about yourself
[20:03] in that way, but you know, look, look at
[20:05] you, man. You know, look at what you've
[20:07] done. You, you know, from where you
[20:09] started, you know, and where you're at
[20:10] now, it's just like extraordinary what
[20:12] what you what you've done." And you've
[20:14] been extremely consistent as well. And,
[20:17] uh, you know, I think a lot of what you
[20:18] you know, you had goals and, you know, I
[20:21] feel like you've accomplished those
[20:22] goals, too. And
[20:25] um you know you say that I was your
[20:27] mentor you know which I is is flattering
[20:30] to me and and us being you know the same
[20:32] age and I only graduated college like a
[20:34] couple of years before you um you know
[20:37] is flattering but I will say that you
[20:39] know anything that I've done for my side
[20:42] you you've just done better and improved
[20:44] on. You know, I I I think back of my
[20:46] times when you're I was a business
[20:48] honors association president, which is
[20:49] like a extremely fond of my life, but I
[20:51] had a great time doing it. And then you
[20:53] come up a couple of years later and
[20:54] you're just like, you do even better.
[20:56] You know, you're you're just the man,
[20:57] Devin. You know, you you've accomplished
[20:59] so much and you know, it's you great.
[21:02] So, you should Oh, that's so nice. I
[21:04] still remember going to your place. It
[21:05] was so nerve-wracking to me because I
[21:07] was like I literally came out of
[21:08] homelessness and I was in complete
[21:10] poverty and now trying to do this
[21:12] college thing. And I remember like, "Oh,
[21:14] there's this guy who was the president
[21:15] of an organization." And then you were
[21:17] the I reached out to all the presidents,
[21:19] pre previous presidents, and you were
[21:21] the only one like, "Come over to my
[21:22] house. Just come over to my house and
[21:23] talk to me about what you're thinking
[21:24] about." I went to your house in
[21:25] Northridge and I showed you some of like
[21:27] the tutoring videos I was trying to do.
[21:28] That's now the YouTube channel that I
[21:30] get like 50,000 views a month now, which
[21:32] is insane. They still don't pay me
[21:34] anything, but it was still cool, like a
[21:36] cool number to talk about. Um, but I
[21:39] showed it to you and you're like, "Yeah,
[21:40] let's just do it, man." and you used to
[21:41] show me the goals in your wallet and it
[21:42] was just really impactful and it became
[21:43] like you become such a good friend even
[21:45] though we don't live close together.
[21:46] It's always just I'm always like yeah
[21:48] I'm going down I'm going to get a key
[21:49] chain and the the kids are going to get
[21:51] together at the same age. It's it's
[21:52] really cool man. Um I would love to talk
[21:54] about I'm sure everyone on the podcast
[21:56] is going to be really interested and
[21:58] fast forward to the session of it'd be
[22:00] really helpful if you talked about a
[22:02] little on pack strategies especially for
[22:05] people
[22:07] making most of the people here making
[22:09] some money. Um, there's going to be some
[22:10] people who are in my situation and kind
[22:12] of working their way up. But there's a
[22:14] lot of people here or I get a lot of
[22:15] phone calls from my we have a mutual
[22:17] friend who called me recently and like,
[22:18] "Hey, I'm making over 200,000 $300,000 a
[22:22] year in W2 income now. How do I pay less
[22:25] taxes?"
[22:27] And and um I think you're the guy to
[22:30] tell that to give the give the honest
[22:32] truthful answer here in in a way with
[22:35] integrity, right? So yeah. Yeah. And
[22:38] it's not it's not that the IRS is not
[22:39] going to be defunded, right? It's not
[22:41] that's not the answer. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[22:43] You know, just don't pay any taxes. You
[22:45] know, you could be a sovereign citizen
[22:47] and just don't do it, you know. Uh but
[22:49] uh uh well, I'm kind of the guy to talk
[22:52] to on that because this is, you know,
[22:53] the same questions I get every single
[22:54] day, you know, in and out. got, you
[22:57] know, in our practice, we've got like
[22:59] 1,800, you know, relatively small
[23:02] individual clients and, you know,
[23:03] another 300 or so, you know,
[23:05] corporations or or business owners. And
[23:08] um I'll give you a couple of, you know,
[23:11] let's let's give an example. Somebody's
[23:13] making $300,000 a year and they're a W2
[23:16] employee and uh let's just say in this
[23:18] example, they don't own a house or they
[23:19] and they live in California. Frankly,
[23:21] there's not going to be a ton of options
[23:22] that this person could do. You know, at
[23:24] the very least, let's talk about the low
[23:26] and fruit. They could max out their
[23:27] company 401 to you know, you're allowed
[23:30] to do if you're under 50, which I
[23:32] believe this person were talking about
[23:33] is, you know, for 2025, they're allowed
[23:36] to put
[23:36] $23,500 into their 401k, which to, you
[23:40] know, federal and state, that's probably
[23:42] going to save them, you know, 35 cents
[23:44] on the dollar for whatever they whatever
[23:46] they put into that account. So, you
[23:48] know, that's that's some real money. Um,
[23:51] aside from that, as a W2 person, that's
[23:53] pretty much all they can do. Their
[23:54] company offers like a a mega backdoor
[23:56] Roth, which you know, some bigger
[23:58] companies offer something like that, you
[24:00] know, not going to save you any taxes,
[24:02] but at least you could put some more
[24:03] money away for retirement. When you do
[24:05] retire one day, you'll have a pretty
[24:06] good Roth account set up. Uh, you know,
[24:09] if we take it one step further and we
[24:11] say, okay, the same person, but they do
[24:13] own a house, so at least they're, you
[24:14] know, itemizing their deductions. Um,
[24:17] from there, yeah, still not a whole lot
[24:19] of options. As a W2 person, you could
[24:21] probably give a little more money to
[24:22] charity. That would be helpful. Uh,
[24:25] there certainly every dollar that you're
[24:26] going to put into charity is not going
[24:28] to translate to, you know, more than a
[24:29] dollar in tax savings. It'll always only
[24:31] be a percentage. So, it's always nice to
[24:33] be charitable, but I wouldn't
[24:35] necessarily go out and give money to
[24:36] charity just for the tax savings. If
[24:38] you're going to give it anyway, then,
[24:39] you know, so be it.
[24:41] Um, you know, if you're barely itemizing
[24:44] your deductions or you're not quite
[24:46] there yet, uh, you know, you could
[24:48] consider giving to charity every other
[24:49] year and then double up your deductions
[24:51] and that it might actually give you some
[24:52] benefit. Whereas, if you do it every
[24:53] year, it could not kind of depends on
[24:55] the circumstances and where your income
[24:57] is on. Where it where it really gets
[24:59] interesting is if you are a business
[25:00] owner. Well, oh, so let's let's I want
[25:02] to get there in a second and I think
[25:03] that so I I think I think really good
[25:06] call out because I I think we skimming
[25:08] through it really fast, but if you are
[25:10] just a W2 employee
[25:13] max out your 401k, that's it. And stop
[25:16] trying to figure out other ways. That's
[25:17] kind of what you got to do. There's not
[25:19] much else you can do. And too many
[25:21] people kind of hyperfocus on that. And
[25:23] then the second piece that I want to be
[25:25] clear with the audience too is just
[25:26] because you get tax advantages for
[25:28] owning a home doesn't mean that it
[25:29] actually makes economic sense. Like
[25:31] there's sometimes where the tax
[25:33] advantage if you get tax advantages on a
[25:36] $15,000 a month mortgage but your rent
[25:37] could be $3,000 a
[25:39] month. Like don't you're not going to
[25:42] get enough tax advantages to make up for
[25:44] the difference between the mortgage and
[25:46] the rent. And so there's a ways to think
[25:48] through. Um so yes you agree first. Do
[25:50] you agree with those two sentiments? Am
[25:51] I missing anything so far? Yeah. No,
[25:53] that sounds good so far. Yeah. Okay. And
[25:56] then and then so now we're getting to
[25:57] like, okay, what can you at some point
[26:01] maybe it makes less sense to continue to
[26:03] go up the W2 chain. I mean, always
[26:05] making more money is more money, but at
[26:07] some point you're at an effective tax
[26:09] rate of almost 40 50%. And there's other
[26:13] ways that you can start structuring your
[26:15] life to make more money that have are
[26:18] not taxed at those ways. And that the
[26:20] most common way is to go start your own
[26:21] business, right? And so I think that's
[26:22] what we're going into what you can
[26:24] advise on next. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So
[26:27] let's say you know if you're like a a
[26:29] single owner, you know, single owner
[26:30] business, then your options really open
[26:32] up and what you could do to save
[26:33] yourself some taxes. Um so what's
[26:36] extremely common for our clients, we've
[26:38] got like loan out corps. So, you're a
[26:41] you're you're in the entertainment
[26:42] industry. You're like a producer or
[26:44] you're a director or a writer, you know,
[26:46] and these big productions are going to
[26:47] they'd be willing to pay you, you know,
[26:49] as a corporation or as a W2. And in some
[26:52] instances, it's very beneficial to be a
[26:55] corporation. And there's a handful of
[26:57] reasons for that. Number one, where I
[27:00] just said a minute ago, you know, as an
[27:01] employee, you're allowed to make a
[27:03] $23,500 401k contribution if you're
[27:06] under the age of 50. when you're
[27:08] self-employed, uh you could have a 401k
[27:11] and depending on if you have employees
[27:13] or not employees, uh you know, you could
[27:15] do up to $70,000 in your account. So,
[27:18] you you know, you more than doubled how
[27:20] much you could put into retirement, you
[27:22] know, which will save you a pretty
[27:23] significant amount of money right there.
[27:25] um above and beyond that. If you're like
[27:27] really making some good money, you're
[27:28] making like, you know, more than let's
[27:30] say $500,000 a year and you want to put
[27:33] away even more than 70 grand into your
[27:35] 401k, then you could pump up to
[27:38] something called a defined benefit plan
[27:40] or a cash balance plan, you know, and
[27:43] I'm not going to say disguise the limit,
[27:45] but you could contribute a lot into one
[27:46] of those plans. And really depending on
[27:48] how old you are and if you have
[27:49] employees or don't have employees, you
[27:51] know, I've got some clients that are
[27:53] able to contribute, you know, over
[27:54] $500,000 a year into a into a defined
[27:57] benefit plan. Not forever, but you know,
[28:00] typically these people have a really
[28:02] good few years and then, you know,
[28:04] retire. It'll go down. Um, but you
[28:07] potentially could put in hundreds of
[28:08] thousands of dollars into a plan like
[28:09] that. And then, you know, of course, if
[28:11] you're making, you know, a few million
[28:13] dollars and you could put $500,000 in
[28:15] your retirement account, it's effective.
[28:16] you're going to save you, you know,
[28:18] $250,000 in tax almost of whatever you
[28:21] put in the account, you know, could end
[28:22] up saving you also. Yeah. And and let's
[28:25] be the if you don't mind me pausing
[28:27] there. The real like one of the real
[28:28] advantages about that is that when you
[28:30] retire, your income is going to likely
[28:33] drop a lot when you're from when you're
[28:35] working and then you can smooth out when
[28:37] you're taking out those distributions
[28:38] once you access those account that even
[28:41] if you're doing like a 401k pre-tax
[28:43] instead of a Roth and people watching
[28:46] this can look that up. But um you can
[28:49] choose when you're doing your
[28:51] distributions and though when you're
[28:53] doing those distributions you can kind
[28:55] of control your taxable income a lot
[28:57] easier than you can when you're like
[28:59] when you're actually W2 employee. Am I
[29:02] speaking about this right? Yeah. Yeah.
[29:04] Definitely. You know, I would say to an
[29:05] extent, um, you know, if you're making a
[29:08] million dollars, you know, and you're in
[29:10] California, you know, you're going to be
[29:12] spending almost half of taxes. And who
[29:15] knows what the future will hold, but
[29:17] very likely, you know, if you're a high
[29:19] earning type of person, you know, in
[29:20] your 50s or so, someday you're going to
[29:23] retire. Let's say it's 70, you know, and
[29:25] you're retired. Well, that million
[29:28] dollars you used to make every single
[29:29] year, you're not making that anymore.
[29:30] So, you're not in a 50% tax break. So, I
[29:33] get to save 50% today to then pay a
[29:37] lower tax rate in the future when I do
[29:39] retire. You know, what a lot of people
[29:40] do is they'll move to Tennessee or
[29:41] they'll move to Florida or Nevada and
[29:43] there's no state income tax and right
[29:45] off the bat they chopped off, you know,
[29:46] 10 to 14% of their taxes just because
[29:50] they moved to another state. Um, you
[29:53] know, when when you do put a lot of
[29:54] money into your retirement account for
[29:56] many many many years, uh, and then you
[29:59] reach by the time, you know, if you're
[30:03] not very close to retirement now, you'll
[30:05] be 75 before you're required to start
[30:07] taking the minimum distributions on
[30:09] those accounts. Um, you know, who knows
[30:11] what the tax rules will be like at that
[30:13] point in time, but you know, if you for
[30:15] sure are going to save almost 50% today
[30:18] and very likely pay a much lower
[30:20] percentage of that in retirement, then
[30:22] it absolutely makes an enormous amount
[30:24] of sense to put money into your 401k.
[30:26] And you know there's there's all these
[30:28] good tax savings things you could do
[30:30] which I could talk about all day long
[30:32] but you know what I would like to impart
[30:35] on you know your audience is uh many
[30:40] people view saving for your retirement
[30:43] as if I have any money left over then
[30:46] I'll save a ton. They say, "Okay, I
[30:48] bought this house that I really liked,
[30:50] and I have a, you know, a Mercedes,
[30:53] which I like, you know, and I can afford
[30:55] it, so I'm going to have it. And you
[30:57] know what? This school district I'm in
[30:59] is okay, but I want the best kids. I'm
[31:01] going to put my kids in front of
[31:03] school." And you know what? I like
[31:06] buying designer clothes occasionally,
[31:08] right? And we go out to nice dares
[31:10] because I have to whine and dine my
[31:12] friends. and you know this $600,000
[31:16] salary they make evaporates pretty quick
[31:18] when you've got a lifestyle like that.
[31:20] Um so what I try to tell people what I
[31:24] do myself and Dean I think you do the
[31:25] same thing which is why you know I I
[31:27] look up to you too is that I I try and
[31:30] tell people to save for their retirement
[31:32] before they do those other things. So,
[31:35] you know, don't don't come to the end of
[31:36] the year on regular taxes. And I have to
[31:38] tell you, you owe $100,000. And also,
[31:40] while you're at it, let's put $50,000
[31:43] into your retirement account. So, you
[31:44] know, you need to come up with
[31:46] $150,000 now. And it's absolutely a good
[31:48] tax. But I'm telling you, at the end of
[31:50] the year, you know, you need to come up
[31:52] with 150 grand. And somebody makes
[31:54] $500,000 a year and has a lifestyle like
[31:56] that, they probably don't have it. And
[31:59] they don't have the money to save for
[32:00] their retirement. and then they have to
[32:01] pay more in tax because they just don't
[32:03] have the cash when the time has come to
[32:05] to pay it. So they leave a lot of tax
[32:08] savings on the table because of it. So
[32:10] you know what I try and tell those
[32:12] people is, you know, save for retirement
[32:14] first. Set your taxes aside first and
[32:16] then look at your budget after you've
[32:19] already accounted for those things. And
[32:20] then, you know, should you buy that
[32:23] Mercedes? Maybe. Should you put your
[32:26] kids in that private school? Should you
[32:28] on expensive vacation? Do you really
[32:30] need to wind your dime and get clients
[32:31] like every single day or week, you know?
[32:34] And uh I think that that's the
[32:37] financially smart thing to do and and
[32:39] you'll actually get to retire someday if
[32:41] you do that. You don't have this large
[32:43] lifestyle inflation. And if you've
[32:44] already saved for your taxes and I've
[32:46] already saved as much money as I
[32:48] possibly can, I'm going to max out my
[32:50] retirement account. Maybe I already gave
[32:52] a little bit of money to charity and I
[32:54] still have extra money, you know, left
[32:56] over after all this. There's other
[32:57] things you could do too before you buy a
[32:59] luxury apartment. You could put money
[33:00] into your kids uh college savings
[33:03] account like a 529 plan, you know, which
[33:05] is effectively uh you get to defer any
[33:08] you don't get to pay tax on any account.
[33:11] So, I personally put started out putting
[33:14] like $15,000 into each of my kids 529
[33:17] plan when they were like just born and
[33:20] by the time they are ready to go to
[33:22] college, you know, that'll be worth and
[33:23] I contribute a little bit more as we go
[33:25] along. But, uh, you know, I'll probably
[33:27] have $100,000 in each of their
[33:29] retirement account in their college
[33:32] savings accounts to pay for their
[33:34] education and I'll not have to pay tax
[33:36] on the gains in that account. And if I
[33:39] did it 18 years before they went to
[33:41] college, the gains are going to be quite
[33:42] significant. So, you know, you you save
[33:45] for your taxes, you save for your
[33:46] retirement, you put money into your kids
[33:48] 52 plan, you increase your savings, and
[33:51] you do all those things before you, you
[33:54] know, start splurging on those, you
[33:56] know, things that aren't necessary. And
[33:58] you're going to find out that maybe you
[34:00] shouldn't be buying those expensive cars
[34:03] and maybe you shouldn't buy that really
[34:05] expensive house that you're really
[34:06] stretching to afford. And if you just,
[34:08] you know, bring down your lifestyle a
[34:10] little bit, whether or not you feel you
[34:12] deserve it is really in the long run
[34:14] going to be much much better for you.
[34:16] And then you have the option to retire
[34:18] early. Maybe instead of working till
[34:20] you're 75 and grinding away and you know
[34:23] being completely absorbed in your life,
[34:24] maybe you get to retire at 60 or 50, you
[34:28] know, wouldn't that be nice? Or even if
[34:30] you don't want to retire at that point,
[34:32] at least you you have the choice. And
[34:34] just having the choice of retiring or
[34:36] working or leaving Google or doing
[34:38] whatever you're going to do it it brings
[34:41] down the stress in your life and and
[34:43] everything is better. You could say no
[34:44] to clients. You could fire clients that
[34:46] are annoying, you know, and that you
[34:48] don't like because you don't need them.
[34:50] I'm okay. I'm gonna be all right, you
[34:52] know, and and you know, there's the
[34:54] short-term benefit of having, you know,
[34:56] a nice car or a bigger, more expensive
[34:58] house, but the the long-term peace of
[35:01] mind that you get from having this
[35:03] safety net and all this money saved up
[35:05] is, in my mind, far more
[35:08] valid so much wisdom for everybody. And
[35:11] I'll recap it, right? And you tell me if
[35:13] I'm off base, but first off, hey,
[35:17] maximize your 401k and maximize your
[35:19] retirement accounts. And if you have
[35:20] your own business, you can even do that
[35:22] more and you have more flexibility with
[35:23] what you can play with there. And just
[35:25] to validate, I know a lot of people at
[35:27] Google who are
[35:29] multi-millionaires and their 30s and
[35:32] it's not because of the Google income.
[35:34] It's partially it's mainly because most
[35:35] of them started saving for retirements
[35:37] in their 20s and maxing out their 401ks.
[35:39] If they max out their 401ks in their 20s
[35:41] steadily throughout their entire life,
[35:43] by the time they're in their late 30s,
[35:45] early 40s, they're all
[35:46] multi-millionaires. That's the main
[35:48] reason. That's the main driver for the
[35:49] wealth. The extra income helps, but
[35:50] normally like to your next point is then
[35:52] you can maximize other tax things. You
[35:54] got your HSA, you got your 529, you got
[35:56] all that fun stuff. But at the end of
[35:58] the day, you can't be lifestyle creep.
[36:00] Like even if you save money, even if you
[36:02] run it through a business and you can
[36:04] take some tax off of it, at the end of
[36:05] the day, it's still only a portion of
[36:07] the expense. If you manage your expenses
[36:10] and manage your lifestyle, that's going
[36:11] to be the biggest win in the long run.
[36:13] And yeah, like to your do you need the
[36:15] $100 bottle of wine or can you drink the
[36:16] $20 bottle of wine? And can you really
[36:18] tell the difference? Can you really? I
[36:20] was in a wine tasting the other week
[36:21] where That's not me. Yeah. No, I don't
[36:24] know anyone who can. I have a friend who
[36:26] does blind tastings who does um like
[36:29] he'll bring a $20 bottle, a $50 bottle,
[36:32] a $100 bottle, a $5 bottle, and then one
[36:35] of these times he brought a $10,000
[36:36] bottle to chalk everybody. And he didn't
[36:38] tell anyone. No one knew. No one knew.
[36:41] And I thought it was the worst tasting
[36:42] bottle in the batch. Like it doesn't
[36:43] matter. Like none of this stuff. He
[36:45] could show off in the ego and
[36:46] everything, but at the end of the day,
[36:48] like you said, having the peace of mind
[36:50] to I don't know, people say f you money
[36:52] where you can just retire early. I don't
[36:53] really believe in that. It's more like,
[36:55] can you just say no to things in
[36:56] confidence without having to be worried
[36:58] about like not going to a nice dinner
[37:00] that night or not paying the bills that
[37:02] week? As long as you can say no by
[37:04] having a few years of savings, you're
[37:05] you're okay. You know, that that gives
[37:07] you so much power. Yeah. Absolutely. And
[37:10] then, you know, aside from that, there's
[37:12] other good tax things you could you
[37:14] could do when you uh build your own
[37:16] business. Um
[37:18] there's in 2018 when they did the Tax
[37:21] Cuts and Jobs Act, it effectively
[37:23] eliminated your ability to to write off
[37:25] your state income tax, right? So, it
[37:28] may, you know, change with the new tax
[37:30] bill. You know, we'll see. Uh but uh
[37:34] there's an election you can make if
[37:35] you've got your own, you know, escorp or
[37:38] you know multimember LLC um where you
[37:42] can elect to pay your state taxes at the
[37:44] corporate level instead of at the
[37:46] personal level thereby allowing you to
[37:47] deduct them for this federal return.
[37:49] There's other nice things uh BI
[37:52] qualified business income deduction. You
[37:54] just get a a free deduction because you
[37:56] got your own business, you know. So, uh,
[37:59] and they put that in place, I believe,
[38:00] because they they cut the corporate tax
[38:03] rate kind of and they wanted to make it
[38:05] fair for people who didn't have a, you
[38:06] know, a Ccorporation. So, there's
[38:08] another little benefit. Um, you know,
[38:11] maybe you've got some write-offs. You
[38:12] know, in our industry, you could have an
[38:15] actor's very common example. They've got
[38:17] an agent, they got a manager, and they
[38:19] got an attorney. And those people are
[38:20] going to take 25% of whatever they make.
[38:23] And if you get paid on a W2, those are
[38:25] called unreimbured employee business
[38:27] expenses. And guess what? They're not
[38:29] deductible on the federal tax return.
[38:31] You can still take them on the state,
[38:32] but not the feds. Congratulations, you
[38:34] made $75,000, but you get to be taxed on
[38:37] $100,000, right? Doesn't quite seem
[38:40] fair, but uh you know, they could have a
[38:42] corporation be a loan out corporation,
[38:44] and now they can write those things off.
[38:46] So uh you know if you're a employee but
[38:49] you've got a lot of expenses legitimate
[38:52] expenses I would hope like this on it
[38:54] then corporation you know or a business
[38:57] would allow you to write those up where
[38:59] otherwise you would not be allowed to
[39:01] write those things. So you know it
[39:03] allows you to write off more stuff put
[39:04] more money into your retirement account
[39:06] you know some extra deductions for your
[39:08] state income tax you know among some
[39:10] other you know small minor tax savings
[39:12] things. But, you know, if you are in a
[39:14] position to where I could be a highly
[39:16] compensated W2 employee or I could be,
[39:19] you know, my own business owner, you
[39:21] think you could be successful and make
[39:23] the same amount of money at it.
[39:24] Certainly, there are are a lot of good
[39:27] tax savings things you can do once
[39:28] you're a business owners. If you have
[39:30] that option, I I would encourage you to
[39:32] do it. You know, if you feel like you
[39:33] could you could handle it and do your
[39:35] own thing. And you know, I've got plenty
[39:38] of clients who do that and then they've
[39:41] been used to having all their taxes
[39:43] taken out of their paycheck this entire
[39:45] time and then we come around at tax
[39:47] time. They didn't put any money away.
[39:49] They didn't save for retirement and they
[39:50] allow this big tax bill and uh you know
[39:52] they're not ready for it and now they're
[39:54] late with the IRS and they got to get
[39:56] out payment plans. And so I wouldn't
[39:58] necessarily say it's for everybody, but
[40:00] hopefully your audience is is conscious
[40:03] and budgeting and keeping track of these
[40:05] things and those are the type of people
[40:06] that I think it it would and could be
[40:10] good for. Well, I think I think that you
[40:12] great call out. So, first off, this
[40:14] isn't for hobbies. It's not for like,
[40:17] hey, I want to start I'm not doing this
[40:19] for a podcast. Yeah. It's not if you're
[40:21] just starting a nonprofitable podcast.
[40:23] You have no business doing it. You can't
[40:25] write off your you have and you're have
[40:27] no income associated with it. Don't
[40:29] write off your camera. This would be to
[40:30] your taxes next year. Yeah. Yeah.
[40:33] Exactly. Exactly. But if you have a
[40:36] business, you could write off the
[40:37] computer, right? Like if you actually
[40:39] and you're making income. So, first if
[40:41] you have a business, make sure the
[40:42] business has income. Like don't go to a
[40:44] tax guy and be like, "Hey, I have a
[40:45] business and it has a $50,000 loss and
[40:47] it turns out to be a bunch of like strip
[40:49] club tickets and, you know, and uh and
[40:52] camera equipment." You don't want you
[40:53] don't want that. um uh you'll get
[40:55] flagged as a voyer too. You might have
[40:56] to report it. But the the other the
[40:58] other side is if you are actually making
[41:01] money as a business, there are
[41:03] legitimate ways to write it off if you
[41:05] structure it correctly. But work with a
[41:06] tax professional and that and at a
[41:08] certain income it makes sense to start
[41:10] having those discussions. And that's
[41:11] what I do. It's
[41:12] like can you not be a W2 employee? Can
[41:16] you go into consulting and and or being
[41:18] an owner who can take that money
[41:21] legitimately following the laws and
[41:22] everything, but being an owner so that
[41:24] you can structure like if you have a
[41:27] high cost business where you do actually
[41:30] need a car where you do actually need to
[41:32] go entertain clients where you are
[41:33] spending on marketing and and investing
[41:35] in the business then this is there's
[41:37] some great ways that you can actually
[41:38] lower your tax bill and you might
[41:40] unnecessarily be paying for it in W2.
[41:42] And I I hear people be like, "Well,
[41:44] don't you pay double tax as a W2? Don't
[41:46] you have the social get hit twice on
[41:49] social security?" But Shane, I'm sure
[41:52] you know the creative ways through the
[41:53] EC Corp and other corporations to
[41:56] minimize that, but also the savings you
[41:58] could have definitely can outweigh it if
[42:00] you do it right. Yeah. Yeah. I literally
[42:03] didn't get into the nuances of uh you
[42:05] know what specifically you're going to
[42:06] do when you record, but if you want to
[42:08] you know be a client of ours and that's
[42:10] interested and you know I'd be happy to
[42:11] talk to anybody about it for you know a
[42:13] few minutes here and there. But um I
[42:16] want to go back to something you said
[42:17] cuz you know of course millions of
[42:19] people are going to be watching this
[42:20] episode just to you know get a glimpse
[42:23] of how handsome that we both are. Um
[42:25] exactly nothing else but um don't get
[42:29] your tax advice from Tik Tok please.
[42:31] It's like I can't tell you, you know,
[42:33] once somebody calling me up and they're
[42:37] like, "Hey, Shane, like I'm going to
[42:38] hire my kids." I'm like, "Okay, okay.
[42:40] How will your kids?" Yeah, there's three
[42:42] and five. And I'm like, "Okay, what is
[42:45] your three-year-old going to be doing in
[42:47] your in your business?" You know? Well,
[42:49] they're just going to pay them and we're
[42:51] going to write it off. It's like, "Okay,
[42:53] guys." Tik Tok said it responds. Anyway,
[42:56] don't do that. And don't get your advice
[42:58] for for Tik Tok. you know, there's
[42:59] there's usually a grain of truth in a in
[43:02] a in a sand dude of
[43:06] misinformation. So, uh, you know, talk
[43:08] to your tax professional. You can
[43:09] certainly always ask them. I get the
[43:11] question all the time. And, you know, I
[43:13] I try to set everybody straight. Um, you
[43:16] know, if you do want to hire your kid
[43:17] and they're 16 years old, do you want to
[43:18] have them do final in your tax office?
[43:20] You you pay them an hourly rate. You put
[43:22] them on a time sheet. You you pay them a
[43:25] normal rate for what they do. and they
[43:27] have to show up and actually do the work
[43:29] and you have to actually pay them. So,
[43:32] you
[43:32] know, don't think if I go form an LLC,
[43:35] I'm allowed to write off whatever I
[43:36] want, you know, which is another one I
[43:38] get, you know, probably once a week. But
[43:40] I have an LLC, so I can write off
[43:41] whatever I want. No, no, you can't write
[43:44] off Netflix. Yeah, exactly. That makes
[43:47] money, you know, as knows.
[43:51] Yeah. No, that's great. I I I appreciate
[43:53] that, man. Thank you for the Well,
[43:54] thanks for the great advice. I know
[43:56] everyone can go in, you can go into a
[43:57] ton of detail in each way and we don't
[43:59] have the time today and if people are
[44:00] more interested maybe we could have
[44:02] another conversation but I will
[44:03] encourage everyone I'll link your you
[44:05] know link your business profile and
[44:07] everyone just reach out to Shane he's
[44:09] the he's my tax expert he's a good
[44:11] friend of mine and someone you could
[44:12] really trust that wedge who can actually
[44:14] help you with strategic planning not
[44:16] just um doing your you know you don't
[44:18] want to come to him just at the end of
[44:20] tax season with a rush order you want to
[44:23] come to him and engage him early and
[44:24] with strategic planning and pay him a he
[44:26] he's worth every single dollar, right?
[44:28] It's much better than H&R Block,
[44:32] hence the clerk. Yeah. You know, you
[44:35] could this is, you know, unofficial
[44:37] bottoms. You could you could pay you
[44:39] could pay less and get less, you know,
[44:41] or you could pay more and get less. So,
[44:44] we try to fill this little niche where,
[44:46] you know, you pay, you know, not too
[44:48] much, but you get you get bucks. We like
[44:50] to think. Yeah. Yeah. You can get
[44:52] better. Well, I I appreciate Shane. And
[44:53] I want to be respectful of your time. I
[44:54] know you got to pick up um the kiddo. So
[44:57] I got to play one game with you. I have
[44:58] to edit with everybody at the end. Just
[45:00] a rapid fire. Um three questions I Well,
[45:02] three or three to five questions I ask
[45:04] everyone depending on the answer. So
[45:05] first off, sweet or savory?
[45:10] Sweet.
[45:12] Okay. Then what's your favorite dessert?
[45:15] Okay, that's a good question. I'm not a
[45:19] big dessert kind of a guy. Um, but you
[45:22] like sweets. Yeah, sure. I guess you
[45:26] know I'm I found it and I don't know if
[45:28] you're this way and now we're getting
[45:30] back off topic here, but I just uh feel
[45:33] like some people have like a strong
[45:36] drive to eat sweets or other things and
[45:38] I just it's like the same difference to
[45:40] me. I could eat an apple or I could eat
[45:41] a candy bar. It wouldn't wouldn't make
[45:43] any difference to me. I Yeah. So, let's
[45:46] say sweet. Uh, what's my favorite
[45:47] dessert? I don't know. Like a how about
[45:49] a chocolate lava cake? Those are pretty
[45:51] good. Okay. Okay. But I think the
[45:54] truthful answer there is the real no
[45:56] food desire. Nothing's going to get you
[45:57] excited. It's Yeah. You know, doesn't
[45:59] matter much to me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[46:01] Okay. Um Good. What's your What's your
[46:03] book? What book are you reading right
[46:05] now? What book am I reading right now?
[46:08] Uh it is called It's a a Brandon
[46:10] Sanderson book. It's the uh it's like
[46:13] the Way of Kings book series. The new
[46:14] one that just came out. Oh, you're
[46:16] reading number four. Are you reading
[46:17] number four also?
[46:18] Yeah. I think it's like the sixth book.
[46:20] I think the sixth one just came out the
[46:22] week. Is it this? Oh, man. Is it really
[46:23] six? Yeah. And it's like, okay, I'm
[46:26] reading it with you, man. I'm reading
[46:27] the same one. Are you so Yeah. Yeah.
[46:30] Yeah. That's so funny, man. What? Great.
[46:32] You introduced me to him and it's great.
[46:34] Yeah. The most recent one, man. He never
[46:36] stopped. It's like multi,000 page book.
[46:38] Like two books a year. I don't get He's
[46:39] like you, Devin. You you could like, oh,
[46:41] I'm just getting my masters on the side
[46:43] and I also have a kid and I also work at
[46:45] Google and I also teach on the side and
[46:47] I also do a podcast. Like I don't I
[46:49] don't get how you do it, man. You know,
[46:50] you you don't sleep or you don't get to
[46:52] watch any TV or anything cuz you you
[46:54] just do it all. And that's that's what I
[46:56] look up to you. You know, you say I bur,
[46:58] but you know, if I think to myself, you
[47:01] know, if I really wanted to be efficient
[47:03] and ambitious and take over the world
[47:06] and do everything I possibly could,
[47:07] who's the guy that I would try and
[47:08] emulate? It would be you. Oh, I mean
[47:11] that that means a lot, man. That means a
[47:13] lot. I got one more question for you.
[47:14] Just that was a great club, but I got
[47:16] one more. What's your least favorite
[47:17] piece of advice that everyone asks or
[47:20] everyone gives?
[47:22] The least favorite piece of advice that
[47:23] everybody
[47:26] gives. Well, I mean, we kind of already
[47:29] mentioned it that that oh, go form an
[47:31] LLC and you can write off whatever you
[47:34] want. Yeah, that's my favorite. Okay.
[47:36] Okay. And too many people give it.
[47:38] That's good. Hey. Hey. Yeah, Shane, I
[47:40] appreciate it, man. This was a lot of
[47:41] fun. I hope you had a good time, too.
[47:43] And I'm looking forward. I got to tell
[47:44] you when I'm getting down. I'll be down
[47:46] in LA, I think, next week. So, I'll give
[47:47] you some dates and hopefully we can find
[47:49] some overlap. All right. Sounds good.
[47:51] Well, I you know, good seeing you too,
[47:54] Devon. And it's always a pleasure. And
[47:56] uh if I'm up in San Francisco, I'll let
[47:58] you know. Appreciate it, brother. You
[48:00] have a great day. All right. All right.
[48:02] You take it easy. Okay.