YouTube transcript
Video ID: 6Zdg1qImsgo
Language: en
Captions: auto-generated

[0:00] leadership isn't rank it's not title
[0:02] it's not Authority the youngest person
[0:04] in the office could be the real leader
[0:06] the best leaders don't command they
[0:08] don't control they Inspire and if you
[0:11] think rescuing your team makes you a
[0:13] great leader you might just be setting
[0:15] yourself up for failur so leaders are
[0:17] not by rank the youngest person in the
[0:20] office could be the leader it's not
[0:21] about directing people it's about
[0:24] inspiring people aren't interested in
[0:26] being the victim in your story they are
[0:29] the hero of their story when we win my
[0:32] team did it when we lose it was my fault
[0:35] right it was a lot easier to go from
[0:38] chocolate covered raisins to dooo than
[0:40] it was from Dudu back to chocolate
[0:42] covered raisins welcome to ambition
[0:44] aligned the podcast that breaks down
[0:45] leadership decision-making and high
[0:47] performance here's the truth leadership
[0:49] isn't about rank it's not about titles
[0:52] and it's definitely not just about
[0:53] competence the real key influence today
[0:56] we're cutting through the noise with
[0:57] Shan mcculler a former Coast Guard
[0:59] commanding office turn executive coach
[1:01] he's LED teams in high stick
[1:02] environments navigating political
[1:04] mindfields and learned firsthand why
[1:06] leadership isn't about control it's
[1:08] about trust in this episode we're
[1:10] exposing the biggest mistakes leaders
[1:11] can make the ship from competence to
[1:14] influence and the unexpected lesson that
[1:16] just may change how you lead and yes
[1:19] we're even going to talk about chocolate
[1:20] cover raisins power dynamics and why
[1:23] sometimes the best move is letting
[1:24] others lead themselves if you're ready
[1:26] to level up your leadership hit
[1:27] subscribe so you don't miss an episode
[1:29] and something in today's conversation
[1:31] resonates with you drop a comment below
[1:33] I'd love to hear your take so what are
[1:35] some issues that uh leaders are facing
[1:37] today that you know I guess it depends
[1:40] on how you look at it if you look at
[1:41] what issues are they having within
[1:44] themselves growing into leadership or
[1:47] what uh what issues are they having with
[1:50] you know in the workforce in the in the
[1:54] economy you know and the industry that
[1:55] they're in so uh I think if I look at
[1:58] what the the uh leaders that I've seen
[2:02] struggle with most there there's kind of
[2:04] two things there's
[2:07] the they want to keep doing the last job
[2:09] they were doing you know and that's a
[2:11] struggle for them really understanding
[2:13] what's the what's the new role about and
[2:16] how can they do that job and they're
[2:18] trying very hard but they're just trying
[2:20] to do their last job
[2:23] harder or there's this thing you you
[2:26] know I don't know if you've had children
[2:28] but the terrible twos
[2:30] so that the terrible twos are all about
[2:33] when a kid decides that they have their
[2:36] own free will and so once they
[2:40] understand that they are separate from
[2:41] their mother and their father and they
[2:43] can do what they want then all of a
[2:45] sudden they think they're responsible
[2:47] for everything they can they think they
[2:49] make the wind blow and they move the
[2:51] curtain you know and they can do
[2:52] whatever and that's very that's
[2:54] distressing you know for a person for
[2:57] for a human so I do see leaders times
[3:00] hit that point in their career where
[3:01] they think well now that I'm you know
[3:05] fill in the blank I can do anything and
[3:08] that's uh that's a tough spot to be into
[3:11] so from the other side you know what
[3:13] what sort of things are they running
[3:15] into in the workforce it's you know
[3:20] um work from home you know since covid
[3:23] there there's so many great things about
[3:27] working from home right I think
[3:30] uh um there's also some bad things about
[3:34] working from home so that's a tough one
[3:36] you know how do you especially for young
[3:38] people how do you ensure you're bringing
[3:40] them along when uh um when you've not
[3:44] had years of experience working with
[3:46] this person you know and so anyway am I
[3:50] getting it the answer to your question
[3:52] de no this is it's it's you're you're
[3:54] really hitting it and I think what's an
[3:56] interesting perspective and I'd be
[3:58] curious on is you know as a commanding
[4:00] officer previously in the Coast Guard
[4:03] did she have any experience with did you
[4:05] have employees that were working
[4:06] remotely at the time or was everyone in
[4:08] person and if they were working remotely
[4:10] how how can people lead their teams when
[4:14] there is this remote environment yeah so
[4:17] not so much in the Coast Guard I mean I
[4:19] did have people that work remotely from
[4:21] me but they were still working in an
[4:25] office theoretically uh but when I left
[4:29] the Coast Guard I left in uh 2020 and I
[4:32] moved over to Homeland Security where I
[4:35] was in charge of uh Financial systems
[4:38] for the Department that year we were
[4:41] rolling out a brand new Financial system
[4:44] to TSA and so and everyone went home so
[4:51] I have said before and I believe that it
[4:52] is true um we would not have been
[4:55] successful with that roll out had we not
[4:58] all gone home the amount of work that
[5:00] you could get done in that environment
[5:03] from you know without having to move
[5:05] from office to office without having to
[5:08] move from building to building you know
[5:09] everyone was expected to be present on
[5:12] on the U Zoom call or teams call or
[5:15] whatever it was and you could move from
[5:17] meeting to meeting in the Press of a
[5:19] button and you know you could get
[5:22] meetings all day so it was overwhelming
[5:25] and we burned some people out but it was
[5:28] also we got a lot done so it turned into
[5:32] and and this I've seen this before in my
[5:35] career when people really believed in
[5:37] what they're doing and uh were committed
[5:40] to getting through a hard problem and
[5:42] getting to success my job as a leader
[5:44] was really to make sure they weren't
[5:46] burning out it wasn't to motivate them
[5:48] it wasn't to get them on the on the
[5:50] phone or make sure they were doing their
[5:51] work it was to make sure they were
[5:53] taking time for themselves and make sure
[5:55] they were you know watching a funny show
[5:58] every now and then you know trying to
[5:59] get get some some Joy you know get a
[6:01] little uplift into their life so um I
[6:05] know that it's changed a bit and uh and
[6:08] so you know in that in that Sprint there
[6:13] it was it was critical for us we could
[6:16] do training we did all the training for
[6:18] all the people in TSA on uh on this new
[6:21] system virtually so wow you know it it
[6:25] worked out it
[6:27] um it it we used it to our advantage um
[6:33] but uh there are certainly drawbacks and
[6:35] so learning how to manage those uh was
[6:39] something uh really big and and the
[6:41] people I worried about the most honestly
[6:43] were the long-term effects on the young
[6:46] people so you've got these young kids
[6:48] that are in their you know first or
[6:50] second job and they don't get the
[6:55] conversation in the hall you know they
[6:56] don't get the let's talk over the water
[6:58] cooler you know uh oneon-one it's
[7:02] uncomfortable for them to call me
[7:03] directly and and I would not
[7:06] intentionally make time to reach out to
[7:08] all of them and so it was how do you how
[7:11] do you um how do you teach them what it
[7:15] is to be part of the team and teach them
[7:18] your values and your you know your the
[7:21] the
[7:23] your I guess work ethic you know the way
[7:26] you treat each other um it's much harder
[7:29] to to do virtually so I think that uh
[7:32] they're they were working on some plans
[7:35] to implement a more intentional way of
[7:39] of bringing new people along in the
[7:42] virtual world I guess that's it seems
[7:45] like a lot of people are coming back to
[7:47] work now so maybe that will be overcome
[7:51] by events yeah it's no I mean it is
[7:54] still fascinating there's this area
[7:56] right now where and and I didn't realize
[7:57] until you just mentioned it you have a
[7:59] very unique perspective of there's some
[8:01] companies that are hey I'm full remote
[8:03] now we're seeing in the government hey
[8:04] I'm full especially federal government
[8:07] hey full back to office I know but then
[8:09] there's a lot of companies like where
[8:10] I'm at Google it's hybrid where you
[8:13] might have some people in some offices
[8:15] some people are remote and there's been
[8:18] pros and cons to both to any model um
[8:20] and so I'm curious you being on both
[8:22] sides of it what what were the biggest
[8:25] pros and what were the biggest cons you
[8:27] saw from the perspective of
[8:30] a leader yeah uh if if I had a a company
[8:34] that was large enough to uh Implement a
[8:36] policy like this it would be a hybrid
[8:38] model because there are benefits to
[8:41] those being home and not losing time
[8:45] driving and into work and coming back
[8:48] you know um the space you can save by
[8:51] maybe only only cycling through 25% of
[8:55] your Workforce on any given day you
[8:57] don't have to have 100% uh space for
[8:59] 100% of your employee so um I would do a
[9:04] hybrid certain days you would have your
[9:06] teams in the office to get ADV to take
[9:09] advantage of some of that face Toof face
[9:11] time and then some days you would be
[9:13] better to work from home how much of
[9:16] each would probably depend on the type
[9:18] of work you were
[9:19] doing uh I I
[9:23] think being isolated all the time is not
[9:26] good you know they did some studies that
[9:27] showed people after having worked at
[9:31] home for an extended period of time were
[9:34] less happy than they were before when
[9:37] they were having to go into the office
[9:39] as frustrating as people are you know
[9:42] they beat the alternative and
[9:45] so um having having that interaction is
[9:48] important I think
[9:49] so
[9:55] hybrid
[9:56] hey and for that hybrid model
[10:00] I think what you're saying too is for
[10:02] the more Junior folks making sure
[10:04] they're in the same office with some
[10:05] more senior folks am I reading that
[10:07] right right yeah that's right yeah yeah
[10:09] you it's
[10:11] um there's a part of mentorship and and
[10:15] um leadership that
[10:18] is innate maybe it it's it's not
[10:23] something you do it's just who you are
[10:26] and for people to be able to see that
[10:28] and see it in each other
[10:30] is kind of irreplaceable in the virtual
[10:32] world you know there there's a way you
[10:35] carry yourself and the way uh so leaders
[10:40] by the way are
[10:41] not by rank necessarily in my mind like
[10:45] the youngest person in the office could
[10:46] be the leader you know uh but that's
[10:50] harder to sense and to see uh and an
[10:53] opportunity missed for that kid who if
[10:56] they are uh not able
[11:00] to um
[11:03] demonstrate what they're capable of in
[11:06] that uh in in real
[11:10] life yeah that makes sense so positional
[11:14] Authority interestingly isn't that big
[11:16] to you even that military You' get the
[11:19] sense get the sense otherwise but to you
[11:23] leadership's more about your ability to
[11:26] change or what how would you define that
[11:28] there's uh there leadership is one of
[11:30] those very very slippery words is yeah
[11:33] yeah
[11:34] sorry yeah
[11:36] it's I
[11:39] uh I remember the the first time someone
[11:41] told me to be a leader I was nine years
[11:43] old in my toy bow football coach is
[11:46] yelling be a leader you know I had no
[11:48] idea I just tried harder I you know what
[11:50] are you supposed to do and it seems like
[11:53] that feeling every time you get a new
[11:55] job it's be a leader well what is it to
[11:58] be a leader
[11:59] you know but in my mind what I'm talking
[12:02] about when I say that kid could be a
[12:04] leader it could it's just in the way uh
[12:07] they carry themselves it's in the way
[12:08] that they treat other people it's in
[12:10] their attitude you know people who lift
[12:14] other people up are leaders and other
[12:17] people are drawn to that person because
[12:19] of the way they are and so the way they
[12:23] choose to go about their daily lives and
[12:25] their their professional world so that
[12:29] that
[12:31] influence um of is a is a form of
[12:34] leadership it it doesn't replace the
[12:37] responsibility of rank you know you know
[12:39] the the manager or the person who's in
[12:42] charge is in charge and is responsible
[12:44] and they are the leader you know in in
[12:47] another sense of that word but that
[12:50] doesn't mean that you
[12:52] know people without positional Authority
[12:56] cannot also EX Express
[13:01] leadership do you have any examples or
[13:04] do any does anyone come to mind you
[13:05] don't have to say names but have any
[13:07] stories that come to mind of where you
[13:08] saw that done really well maybe someone
[13:10] I think I'm thinking of this too where
[13:12] someone really Junior comes in and and
[13:14] you go look in the room and say wow that
[13:16] person's actually the leader here yeah
[13:18] yeah it's um I think of u i a a very
[13:24] young man that uh worked uh in
[13:28] my director in my last job he was just
[13:33] uh the most positive uh person in in all
[13:37] scenarios very professional he wore
[13:40] three-piece suits all the time in bow
[13:42] ties and he he was just a pleasant human
[13:47] and and anyone with a problem he was
[13:49] there to help you know and he was
[13:52] volunteered to do everything and so he
[13:56] just had this energy about him that made
[13:58] people want to be around him and made
[14:00] people want to try harder and to me
[14:03] that's the essence of real leadership is
[14:07] it's not
[14:08] about directing people it's about
[14:11] inspiring people and so a person can be
[14:15] inspiring regardless of their position
[14:17] in the
[14:19] organization yeah well and that's it's
[14:22] it's fascina Ty that back to the remote
[14:26] environment did you ever observe anyone
[14:28] taking leadership in in that kind of
[14:31] world or how can someone how can someone
[14:34] Thrive if they did yeah it's it's it's
[14:38] different I'm sure that I'm sure that it
[14:41] is um it is doable it's but it would
[14:46] require a different kind of skill set
[14:48] you know someone who's who's uh again
[14:53] it's how they make other people feel in
[14:55] that virtual
[14:57] environment versus you in the in the in
[15:00] the real world in real life so and I
[15:03] guess that we shouldn't say that you
[15:04] know cuz this is real it's just it just
[15:07] happens to be it's just not in person so
[15:11] uh so you know how how can a how can a
[15:14] person come across as generous and uh
[15:18] and capable and energetic and
[15:23] positive in a virtual environment you
[15:26] know it's in the tone of their voice
[15:27] it's in the way that they
[15:29] speak it's in what they say and when
[15:31] they say it and uh the choices they make
[15:34] and how they treat other people that
[15:39] uh that allow them to sort
[15:42] of Express that
[15:45] leadership well you know it brings me an
[15:48] interesting an interesting thought I'm
[15:49] curious this this happened to you but I
[15:51] I recognized something when I was in Co
[15:53] I went through Co and I was managing a
[15:55] team at Google and I recognized
[15:57] something similar to you a lot of people
[15:59] said you know people worked less during
[16:01] covid I didn't experience that I
[16:03] actually had the opposite people burn
[16:04] themselves out because you could work
[16:06] 247 and we were hyperproductive with a
[16:09] small team but I think one of the
[16:12] interesting aspects was when you
[16:14] actually met those people in person
[16:15] after working online and you'd be like
[16:18] Oh I thought this person was short and
[16:19] they're actually really tall you know
[16:21] you know I mean and I was just making me
[16:24] think
[16:26] about there is an element I don't know
[16:28] if it's after electronically yet of
[16:31] finding personality for some reason
[16:33] finding personality and person is always
[16:36] a little different and I I think to your
[16:38] point of those locker room conversations
[16:40] or not locker room like water cooler
[16:42] conversations of cracking a joke after
[16:44] having a serious meeting can be a really
[16:45] element of someone's personality I'm wor
[16:48] I'm curious did you have any experiences
[16:49] like that
[16:50] too oh yeah um I remember one of This
[16:54] brilliant brilliant woman that was our
[16:58] uh sort of an internal auditor um and uh
[17:02] she was you know I had my my screens
[17:05] were always kind of above ey Lev and she
[17:08] was always you know so smart so sharp so
[17:10] on point and uh and I was used to
[17:13] looking up and and you know hearing her
[17:15] speak and when I met her she's like this
[17:17] B you
[17:19] know do you have a taller
[17:22] sister but yeah no she it was it was
[17:26] interesting when you finally got to meet
[17:28] these people well you know they didn't
[17:30] the camera does things to you that makes
[17:32] you look different uh for for some
[17:35] people more than other yeah yeah okay
[17:37] good I'm not alone I'm not alone so
[17:39] Shane I'm really curious from you're
[17:42] making some big transitions in your life
[17:44] from going from a very very high level
[17:47] um to making a transition to the
[17:50] Department of home and security and now
[17:53] making this next transition to being an
[17:55] executive coach can you can you mff me
[17:57] through what's it like like to not a lot
[18:00] of people make these big decisions when
[18:02] they already had such a successful
[18:03] career so maybe walk me through what's
[18:08] going through your head with these
[18:09] decisions and yeah yeah so
[18:15] the leadership uh your professional
[18:19] growth you know we talked about how at
[18:21] each level it's different and you have
[18:23] to learn that level to move to move to
[18:25] the next level you know uh and so
[18:31] the things that you have to do to do
[18:33] your job well and to be of use at each
[18:36] level are different and so we've all got
[18:40] different things that our nature uh
[18:43] likes there's things that give us energy
[18:45] and they're things that take our energy
[18:48] and when you as you as you go up the
[18:51] chain you know I I loved managing my
[18:54] team you know sort of the what they call
[18:57] the down and end now I know I didn't
[18:59] know this then but as you get farther up
[19:02] the chain you go more up and out right
[19:05] and so you're dealing with what do you
[19:07] mean by that what can you explain that a
[19:09] little bit sorry that's really
[19:10] interesting yeah so so um when you start
[19:15] off as a leader you've got a small team
[19:17] you've got a you know a a small Division
[19:21] and your your job is to you know you
[19:24] learn that job and you learn that well
[19:26] it's not my job to be the boss it's my
[19:28] job job to bring all these amazing
[19:31] people that know how to rebuild a a jet
[19:35] engine I will never know I bring them
[19:39] everything they need to do their job
[19:41] right that's the value that I add I
[19:43] can't do their job but I can get them
[19:46] the resources I can get them the
[19:47] processes and you know I can give them
[19:50] what they need to do their job and then
[19:52] I can take care of them I can look out
[19:53] for them and fight for what's best for
[19:55] them right uh I just need to ear their
[19:59] trust you know that's what I need to do
[20:01] well as you go up that group gets bigger
[20:04] and in a way it gets smaller because
[20:06] you're instead of managing a group of
[20:08] you know 30 people you've really got six
[20:13] leaders under you that you're managing
[20:15] right and so it's still kind of the same
[20:17] but what you learn
[20:19] is you can Inspire these people you can
[20:22] they can uh really believe in what
[20:23] they're doing they can give their whole
[20:25] heart and soul to it they can achieve
[20:27] things that have never been done
[20:29] before but you have a peer over
[20:32] here that wasn't happy about it right so
[20:37] for some reason they said oh mcculler
[20:41] and that team will never do this right
[20:43] and now you do it and they they have to
[20:46] find a reason why uh you cheated or it
[20:50] wasn't as good as everybody thought or
[20:53] so as you as you go up the your
[20:57] stakeholders are no longer your team
[21:00] they're like everyone who can see this
[21:02] who's involved with this right and as
[21:05] you get even higher up it's it's you
[21:08] know one disgruntled Congressional
[21:11] staffer can you know uh snatch defeat
[21:15] from the jaws of Victory just by uh by
[21:19] with a bad word or two about the project
[21:22] that that you just uh delivered so
[21:25] you've got to make sure you become the
[21:27] chief storyteller
[21:29] making sure that
[21:31] everyone understands what you're doing
[21:33] that everyone is on board uh and that
[21:36] was exhausting to but you know even
[21:39] people who have really disappointed you
[21:41] maybe have people you might not like uh
[21:46] you know but this is this is not Middle
[21:50] School you don't get to only eat lunch
[21:52] with the people you think are cool right
[21:55] so you've got to go and and find uh find
[21:58] people that are not rooting for you and
[22:02] make them feel like they're part of your
[22:05] success right so that's exhausting I'm
[22:09] I'm a little bit introverted and I'm uh
[22:11] I have a hard time
[22:14] faking you know and so that became you
[22:19] know one of the things that was really
[22:21] exhausting and so being good at that
[22:25] level some people are gifted like that
[22:27] you know it's
[22:30] this as
[22:32] you I liked it where
[22:35] my um competence was the most important
[22:38] thing and the network was maybe down
[22:41] here well as you as you get older your
[22:46] competence becomes less and less
[22:48] important and your network and your
[22:50] ability to influence people is really
[22:53] what you're there for and so if you like
[22:56] that man you get all of it to you you
[22:59] want if you're an extrovert you know and
[23:01] you get energy from dealing with with
[23:04] folks then then that's that's your
[23:06] that's your thing if you want to make a
[23:08] spreadsheet or write a paper you don't
[23:10] want to be uh an executive
[23:13] so so that's I think that's what I mean
[23:16] by that so up and out is more these are
[23:19] not people in my chain of command and so
[23:22] it's very intangible the connection they
[23:25] have to your success or failure but
[23:28] you've got to see it and you've got to
[23:29] engage with those people and bring them
[23:31] in uh especially the naysayers you know
[23:36] ask them why do you think this is going
[23:37] to fail what do you think we should do
[23:39] differently and have them feel like part
[23:41] of your success instead of you know get
[23:44] them invested somehow
[23:48] so that's that's what I mean by up what
[23:51] if if you don't mind one of the ways I
[23:53] can tell you already you're just we a
[23:55] top class leader and people are lucky to
[23:56] listen to this is you didn't take I
[24:00] asked you about leadership and you never
[24:01] mentioned when you're at the higher
[24:02] levels managing your team right like you
[24:05] you you trusted your team there's a
[24:07] degree of trust there you had good
[24:08] people you weren't worried about their
[24:10] jobs it's more unblocking them so they
[24:12] could actually have an impact and that
[24:14] that's what you're going up and out
[24:15] right am I reading that right like going
[24:17] up and out you're actually not managing
[24:18] or in the details anymore it's just
[24:20] making sure your team can move is that
[24:22] right yeah so so I think of leadership
[24:25] and management as two different things
[24:28] to be to be good at your job you've got
[24:31] to have both you can't if you're all one
[24:34] and and not enough of the other you're
[24:36] you're going to fail your people or or
[24:38] you're going to fail someone and so
[24:42] um yeah as you as you get more senior
[24:46] you've got to give the people that
[24:49] you are leading the opportunity to
[24:53] manage their own
[24:54] teams you know and so that gets into the
[24:57] I don't need to do their job for them
[24:59] anymore you know I need to give them the
[25:02] systems and and at that point really by
[25:04] the end of my
[25:06] career I wasn't giving them the systems
[25:09] I was making sure they they gave them
[25:12] right so what what are the systems
[25:14] you're going to use to answer this you
[25:16] know where do we get where do we get
[25:18] those how do we create them you can't
[25:20] just just reinvent the wheel every every
[25:22] time this problem comes up how do we
[25:25] system systematize that uh and uh set up
[25:28] boundaries for people so heard this uh
[25:33] in in grad school and it's one of one of
[25:35] my favorite sayings is that uh you can't
[25:37] be creative without
[25:39] boundaries and uh it took me it took me
[25:43] a while to get that uh the teacher that
[25:46] that told me that was uh a very a very
[25:50] flamboyant you know uh colorful guy and
[25:54] it was just overwhelming the whole the
[25:56] whole show you know of his class and
[26:00] smartest one of the smartest guys I ever
[26:02] met Steve Tomlinson I think but anyway
[26:06] and and it finally hit me it's like well
[26:09] if I if I just said Devon be
[26:12] creative you know it's too much right
[26:16] it's too much if I said Devin write me a
[26:19] play uh and it's three acts it's got to
[26:23] be an hour long and it's in a high
[26:25] school on their stage their stage is set
[26:27] up at a uh an apartment in New York City
[26:32] and you've got you know three
[26:35] actors you can start to create from that
[26:38] right you get a million ideas already
[26:40] just thinking about what you could do
[26:42] with that so so you can't you you can't
[26:46] really be creative without boundaries
[26:48] that's probably too absolute but you get
[26:51] what I'm
[26:52] saying yeah definitely I imagine most
[26:56] people can't start businesses or have
[26:58] trouble starting their own businesses or
[26:59] being self-motivated but they can hold
[27:02] down a job right they can hold down a
[27:04] job as soon as you give them something
[27:05] to do people will get it done but if you
[27:07] give them infinite possibilities it's
[27:09] challenging or if you play chess it's
[27:11] not fun with a three-year-old who
[27:13] doesn't play by the rules right yeah
[27:14] like what are you doing you can only
[27:15] play for so long
[27:17] so right right yeah yeah yeah very
[27:21] helpful
[27:22] so after so is that what made that first
[27:26] transition from being at the top level
[27:28] so
[27:28] leadership uh to going to the homeland
[27:32] security was wanted to try something
[27:34] different get more in the technical
[27:35] details or yeah what what drove that and
[27:39] well so the decision to leave the Coast
[27:41] Guard uh back in 2020 yeah um we we have
[27:45] an uper out system in the Coast Guard so
[27:48] everyone the commandant of the Coast
[27:50] Guard on down you either you know uh if
[27:54] you don't quit you get fired you you age
[27:57] out the top
[27:58] and so I aged out so at at 30 years I
[28:03] was uh I I was released on my own
[28:06] recognizance I got
[28:09] paroled so so that's why I left it was
[28:13] uh it was a time that was I had reached
[28:16] the uh the end of my allotted time and
[28:19] you have to do that in the the military
[28:21] to give opportunities for those
[28:22] underneath you you know to to move up
[28:25] and so uh that is just just the way it
[28:28] works Consulting audit is the same thing
[28:31] they have timeout Partners so the next
[28:33] batch can come in right I didn't know
[28:35] that really yeah yeah they have age
[28:37] limits 50 55 you got to get out so the
[28:40] next ones can come in or else people are
[28:42] going to start throwing over the
[28:44] leadership you can't let everyone work
[28:46] at the bottom too long right yeah yeah I
[28:49] did I didn't know they did that yeah
[28:50] that's the same thing well I guess I'm
[28:52] not I'm not questioning at all 30 years
[28:55] and you had and thank you for your
[28:56] service and you so much there not
[28:59] everyone gets that far um by any means
[29:03] why why'd you take something else why'd
[29:05] you go to the homeland security I guess
[29:06] what drove you to take on that mission
[29:09] yeah so I actually um I worked through
[29:13] this book uh called uh what color is
[29:17] your parachute it was it's very
[29:19] difficult think of uh my whole
[29:23] professional career right I really made
[29:25] one decision join the Coast after that
[29:29] almost all the decisions are made for
[29:30] you where are you going to live what are
[29:33] you going to do what are you going to
[29:35] wear I mean there's a book that says
[29:38] this is what you wear in every situation
[29:41] and there's a store that only sells the
[29:43] stuff in that book so it's it's about as
[29:47] easy as it can be right and so you can
[29:50] focus so you know people find that
[29:52] smothering but I found it liberating
[29:55] because it so much stuff you don't have
[29:57] to think about I can just think about
[29:59] doing the best job I can do at this task
[30:03] so um whatever task they've given me so
[30:07] when you get to now you're in your 50s
[30:10] you've really got maybe 10 years of of
[30:13] meaningful work that you want to do you
[30:16] got one or two career choices that you
[30:19] can make and you have zero experience
[30:22] making that choice you know it was it's
[30:25] very intimidating it's very stressful
[30:28] it's uh you know I mean it's not the end
[30:32] of the world but it is it it really kind
[30:34] of weighs on you so this book helped me
[30:35] it it walked you through a a maybe not
[30:39] perfect but a format for structuring
[30:43] those
[30:44] decisions so I've got kind of an
[30:46] engineering mind I like spreadsheets I
[30:50] like uh you know logic I don't mind
[30:53] making emotional choices I know your
[30:55] choices are all emotional but when
[30:58] there's too many factors you your
[31:00] emotions get confused so it really
[31:02] helped me divide it down into okay where
[31:06] do I want to live you know what are
[31:08] things that I like about a place to live
[31:10] what are things I don't like about a
[31:11] place to live what's my you know where
[31:14] do what do I want to do what kind of
[31:15] work have I enjoyed in the past what
[31:17] have I not enjoyed in the past you know
[31:19] and I literally wrote out this job like
[31:23] I I'd love to be involved with you know
[31:26] financial management program program
[31:28] management in the it Arena and I would
[31:31] like to keep my career moving forward
[31:33] and you know keep moving up like to be
[31:35] able to make a big difference something
[31:37] that I care about and all of those
[31:39] things just sort of fell in my lap the
[31:43] uh the person uh who uh who had my
[31:48] job moved on and they were looking for
[31:52] someone and they called and I was able
[31:56] to compare it in all the different you
[31:59] know ways I knew what I wanted and so it
[32:03] it fit me perfectly so you know I I did
[32:06] have other
[32:07] opportunities I thought about Consulting
[32:10] I thought about um Contracting you know
[32:13] I thought about a number of different
[32:15] things and but this one really fit
[32:17] everything that I wanted to do because I
[32:19] was I still wanted to have skin in the
[32:22] game I didn't want to be an outside
[32:24] consultant just throwing you know Rec
[32:27] commendations over the wall and you know
[32:29] good good luck um I really wanted to be
[32:34] uh
[32:35] um producing those
[32:39] outcomes for for people so that's sort
[32:43] of what led me to that
[32:46] decision but you had to do the self work
[32:48] right of figuring out and that's not
[32:49] easy after you had 30 years of your
[32:51] career Playbook now you're going
[32:54] figuring out what you want and I guess
[32:56] why I'm saying that is if that
[32:57] opportunity came to you without that
[33:01] self-work would it have been as clear no
[33:04] not at all and and that's one of the
[33:06] things I hope to do with my coaching
[33:08] practice is really help people with
[33:11] those career changes at that phase you
[33:13] know where you really don't you don't
[33:17] have enough Runway to make some bad
[33:20] decisions you know you really want to
[33:23] figure
[33:24] out the best way you can what what what
[33:29] what inspires you what excites you
[33:31] what's going to be a great fit for you
[33:33] and what's a process for doing that more
[33:37] than just let me sit with this for a day
[33:40] and wait for some preference to arise
[33:43] you know um and and so I wish that I had
[33:47] had a little more help that book was
[33:49] super helpful but really you know
[33:52] walking through doing that work uh with
[33:55] someone I think
[33:58] would have been super helpful and you
[34:00] know you talk about leaders um and and
[34:03] what are some of the problems that they
[34:05] face uh it's very difficult to ask for
[34:08] help in fact I you really that's that's
[34:13] a double edged sword there you know so
[34:16] uh finding a
[34:18] coach um I wish I had had one I never
[34:22] had one I think uh I think that that
[34:25] could make a huge difference in the
[34:28] speed with which you make adaptations
[34:31] and and the quality of your decision
[34:36] making that's that's really fascinating
[34:40] to think
[34:41] about doing the self-work your book was
[34:44] the coach you coached yourself through
[34:46] that situation but if you had a coach
[34:50] through it maybe it would have been an
[34:51] easier path and now just jumping forward
[34:54] you've done the homeland security you're
[34:55] taking that next stage of
[34:58] yeah going into coaching is that so is
[35:00] that the main driver what are you hoping
[35:02] to get out of that or there's a door
[35:04] behind you who's walking through that
[35:06] door that you're coaching and what's
[35:08] what's I thought somebody was really
[35:10] coming in
[35:13] no if if someone was walking in who are
[35:15] you hoping to help out there oh it's uh
[35:19] I can see the people that I've been
[35:22] right and and I I hope and suppose that
[35:25] there are more but
[35:28] people that have big
[35:30] decisions they don't have a lot of time
[35:33] for themselves they
[35:37] um have everything they need they're
[35:40] successful capable people but they have
[35:43] not taking the time and they don't have
[35:45] someone that's both invested and not
[35:48] invested right in in a way that uh that
[35:51] they can be honest back and forth and
[35:56] and get some good
[35:58] input uh so I see retiring senior
[36:04] military leaders you know who are trying
[36:07] to make that career change I see new uh
[36:12] Executives and uh who are trying to make
[36:16] that jump from being uh a senior leader
[36:19] to an executive leader and make that
[36:21] move from down and in to up and out and
[36:25] understanding that Network and
[36:28] their stakeholders and how to
[36:30] communicate with them a little better um
[36:34] so I I mean I think I could I think I
[36:37] think it would be cool to help uh Small
[36:40] Business Leaders owners you know I just
[36:44] I don't know I I feel I the more I learn
[36:47] about coaching the more I understand
[36:51] that the people that I know the best is
[36:54] probably going to be harder hardest for
[36:56] me to coach
[36:58] because the whole point of coaching is
[37:00] that you try not to lead you try not to
[37:02] diagnose you really let people tell
[37:05] their own story let people come to their
[37:07] own conclusions and you know let let
[37:11] people rescue themselves you know and so
[37:14] that's that's where it's powerful you
[37:18] know I um I have this story
[37:24] uh that I tell so I this will take a
[37:28] minute but it's a pretty good story go
[37:30] ahead go ahead yeah
[37:33] so 90y old man falls down a uh stairwell
[37:38] on a cruise ship in the
[37:40] Caribbean I'm deployed down in the
[37:43] Caribbean helicopter pilot we get called
[37:47] it's about 2:00 in in in the morning we
[37:49] get called to go met back the guy so we
[37:52] go pick him up and we take him to uh the
[37:55] closest airport with a Runway
[37:58] and we're we we offload him and we're
[38:01] sending him over to get on the jet this
[38:04] guy's old uh he's in shock he's in an
[38:08] immense amount of pain he's uh he's uh
[38:13] not in a good not having a good day all
[38:15] right it's by now it's like 4 o'clock in
[38:17] the morning and as they're getting ready
[38:19] to load him onto the the
[38:21] airplane he he gets all frantic he's
[38:23] been pretty calm but he gets he starts
[38:25] waving his hands and stuff
[38:28] flight M from our crew comes over plugs
[38:30] his headset in and says sir this guy
[38:33] won't get in the plane until he shakes
[38:35] your
[38:36] hand so so we we shut the plane you know
[38:40] shut the helicopter down get out and go
[38:42] shake this guy's hand and I can't I
[38:45] don't remember his face really but I
[38:47] remember his hand and how he held on to
[38:49] it you know and
[38:51] um
[38:53] and and you know then he holds my hand
[38:56] he gets on the plane and he he goes on
[38:58] they take him to the hospital he he
[38:59] lives he that's
[39:01] fine I didn't I didn't know it at the
[39:04] moment I mean it was a it was a neat
[39:07] know it was a meaningful experience
[39:09] right you just that guy you think about
[39:12] the life that he had lived and the
[39:14] things that he had been through you know
[39:16] the Great Depression World War II the
[39:18] greatest generation
[39:19] and the the amount of toughness and the
[39:22] integrity and the you know the values of
[39:26] that that
[39:28] person that was meaningful that always
[39:30] that sat with me for a long time and it
[39:33] wasn't until a couple of years ago I
[39:35] read this book um building a story brand
[39:40] uh Donald Miller have you heard this no
[39:44] no I haven't oh it's it's a great book
[39:46] and uh
[39:48] it's it's supposed to be a marketing
[39:50] book but the the the main thrust of the
[39:53] story of the book is
[39:57] people don't want to be
[39:59] rescued
[40:02] right people aren't interested in being
[40:04] the victim in your
[40:06] story they are the heroes of their story
[40:10] right so everybody's living in their own
[40:12] movie and they're they're the star
[40:14] they're the hero of their own movie
[40:17] so what I think about that old man and I
[40:20] can three times in 30
[40:24] years in hundreds of rescues where
[40:27] someone said Thank you right that guy
[40:30] was
[40:30] one there were two boys that were made
[40:34] to come and say thank you as
[40:37] punishment because they had stole a they
[40:40] stole a kayak and took it out into a
[40:42] storm and we had to go get them uh and
[40:44] then one one guy was a rich guy on a
[40:46] yacht uh that that came in and thank the
[40:49] whole crew but but anyway so when you
[40:51] look back on reading that book and
[40:53] looking back on it going yeah you know
[40:56] people don't like being
[40:58] rescued when you they're having the
[41:00] worst day of their life when when you
[41:02] show up and you know to to bail them out
[41:05] they don't that's not
[41:10] uh that's not who they see themselves as
[41:12] somewhat helpless you know so
[41:17] um that that has
[41:22] always uh no hasn't always it became a
[41:26] very important part of my uh view of of
[41:31] leadership and and interaction and now
[41:34] coaching which
[41:36] is teach people to save themselves don't
[41:39] try to save them right you can go in and
[41:42] and have all the answers but if you just
[41:43] give them the answers they're going to
[41:45] be like all right dude you know thanks a
[41:48] lot have a good day but if they fight
[41:50] through their own internal blocks and
[41:53] find those answers for themselves
[41:55] they're going to they're going to own
[41:56] them and the ownership is key wow do you
[42:01] see those people that thanked you did
[42:02] they take a bit of ownership in
[42:04] that in that rescue or how do you how do
[42:07] you view that that's really powerful
[42:09] yeah so I think the the three that did
[42:12] you know one was the old guy right and
[42:14] that was just his he had lived Beyond
[42:17] his need to be the hero he had already
[42:22] so the two lessons I take from that that
[42:25] man was one get over yourself you know
[42:29] believe that you are the hero you don't
[42:31] have to be the hero every day you've
[42:33] lived 90 years you are comfortable with
[42:37] with who you are and that your your
[42:39] selfworth and it's and it's not only
[42:42] okay it's good to share the the glory
[42:47] right uh and uh two is this how rare
[42:54] that is how rare it is that uh people
[42:58] are comfortable enough with
[43:01] themselves to to uh to recognize that
[43:06] it's okay that we needed to be rescued
[43:08] you know it's not I'm I'm not a a uh I'm
[43:13] I'm not a uh Damsel in Distress because
[43:17] I I I had a bad day so um so so so
[43:21] there's that guy there's the two kids
[43:22] that got punished and were made to come
[43:25] and and say we're sorry and and then the
[43:27] one rich guy he made a whole show out of
[43:29] it he he came and and like brought food
[43:32] and uh and reenacted his whole well you
[43:35] didn't I didn't look like this the last
[43:37] time you saw me and he put on all of his
[43:39] old tore up clothes and and he got in
[43:41] his raft and uh he he did it uh he did
[43:46] it big you know and so again very you
[43:49] know he his selfworth was not challenged
[43:53] by the fact that he had to be rescued so
[43:55] there's something there there's
[43:56] something that's good for a leader to
[43:58] know that you know when when we win they
[44:03] did it you know my team did it when we
[44:05] lose it was my fault
[44:08] right that is that has to be the way
[44:12] that you operate right or people won't
[44:14] trust
[44:15] you anyway I think I'm rambling not at
[44:19] all no I love this and I I'm just trying
[44:21] to you I can't tell you that you just
[44:23] tied so many dots for me where a chief
[44:25] of staff in my role
[44:27] uh I was a chief of staff for my the
[44:29] controllership organization at Google
[44:30] cloud and for a couple of years and one
[44:34] of the most challenging things about the
[44:36] position was I get pulled in when people
[44:38] weren't moving fast enough I'd be coming
[44:40] to rescue and I I'm a I don't like to
[44:46] brag but I I get along with people like
[44:48] I I I'm pretty socialable and I I
[44:51] understand I'm pretty human and in that
[44:54] role people stop liking me pretty fast
[44:56] if you're the person coming into to do
[44:57] rescues I was shocked it's very
[45:00] counterintuitive and you don't realize
[45:01] it unless you're in the position and and
[45:03] those stats really just brought it home
[45:04] for me that I thought I was helping them
[45:07] like hey you guys are going slow I'm
[45:09] here to help you out I could but I was
[45:11] actually their enemy I was like whoa we
[45:14] don't need help that's a common theme
[45:16] that people say it's like why are you
[45:18] here we don't need the help yeah and it
[45:20] sounds like you experienced that in The
[45:21] Most Extreme Ways oh yeah even in you
[45:24] know personal life people may allow you
[45:27] to rescue them but they will resent it
[45:31] later if they you know if they have no
[45:34] choice they will allow themselves to be
[45:36] rescued maybe even there's some who want
[45:38] to be and you need to look out for them
[45:41] uh but it's say uh you know in
[45:44] relationships I've found the same thing
[45:47] it is if you think you're rescuing them
[45:51] you will eventually resent them if they
[45:53] think you're rescuing them they will
[45:55] eventually resent you so there's
[45:57] something there I'm sure that there are
[45:59] studies that I haven't looked up but
[46:00] it's I I think that it's true and it's
[46:03] something that
[46:05] um maybe I don't have the words exactly
[46:07] right but there is this resistance to to
[46:11] being
[46:13] rescued and that's so powerful why
[46:15] you're going in coaching right is you
[46:17] see that natural element of Being Human
[46:21] it's just we our attachment to our egos
[46:23] or however you want to say it and
[46:25] there's the wise old man there that
[46:28] recognized like hey you know I you guys
[46:31] are helping me out and they actually
[46:32] gave you credit where credit was due and
[46:35] it's strange that that was so rare but
[46:36] you taking that element of recognizing
[46:38] people have egos recognizing that there
[46:41] needs to be a safe space but and and
[46:44] working with it rather than against it
[46:46] like Consulting and Advising a lot of
[46:48] the times I've been the consultant it
[46:51] sounds like you've been in that role too
[46:52] where here's the thing you should do
[46:54] yeah and here it's cost you $3 million
[46:56] to make this fancy report you pay the
[46:58] firm three million bucks yeah they never
[47:01] do it no one ever follows into the de no
[47:04] one no one wants to hear what they're
[47:06] doing wrong right so right right yeah
[47:09] yeah I remember the joke used to be um
[47:12] when I was in the Coast Guard and we
[47:15] would hire these Consultants it was a
[47:18] consultant is someone what you ask them
[47:20] what time it is and they ask to borrow
[47:22] your watch and
[47:24] so that's good and well now I look back
[47:28] on it and I go well why the hell would
[47:29] you be asking them what time it is if
[47:31] you've got a
[47:33] what and I think that's I think there's
[47:36] something there too right it is uh a lot
[47:39] of people don't realize they've got to
[47:42] watch you know and so as a coach you can
[47:45] just say um what does your watch say
[47:50] right what what time do you think it is
[47:54] yeah and that's gonna help build that
[47:56] person up and breathe less resentment
[47:58] through the process right you're not
[47:59] coming in to save them you're teaching
[48:01] them and helping them along the way to
[48:02] save themselves absolutely I mean it's
[48:05] the whole for me the whole idea is to
[48:07] increase self-awareness and increase
[48:10] personal agency they their recognition
[48:14] that they can they can change more they
[48:18] can affect more they can do more we can
[48:20] all do more than we normally think we
[48:24] can or you you said something
[48:26] interesting earlier I don't know if you
[48:27] could elaborate just for a little bit
[48:30] you said the person walking through the
[48:32] door and correct me if I'm Mis stating
[48:34] this but you said the person walking
[48:35] through the door would be someone who
[48:39] you essentially you coaching versions of
[48:41] yourself right things that you've been
[48:43] through you feel like you could help
[48:45] those people
[48:46] through could you give me an example or
[48:48] like maybe go back until any of your
[48:51] experience of wow this is when a coach
[48:54] really would have been valuable to me
[48:55] and how you managed that yeah
[49:00] um I mean you know we talked about
[49:03] retiring from the military that would
[49:05] have been helpful as a new
[49:08] executive that would have been helpful
[49:10] to really you know moving from the
[49:12] military into a civilian position where
[49:15] you go into meetings with people and
[49:17] they they're not wearing their resume on
[49:19] their shirt you know you know like
[49:21] military so yeah so that would have been
[49:24] helpful you know I think
[49:27] to your point where would
[49:29] it where would it have been most
[49:32] pivotable pivotal in my earlier
[49:36] career
[49:38] um
[49:40] so the Coast Guard has
[49:42] c130s okay it's a it's a 4 engine cargo
[49:46] plane and we've got we've had 30 to 40
[49:50] of those for 50 years and
[49:53] so we normally because we operate in a
[49:57] weird environment we're
[49:59] not flying and dropping bombs and stuff
[50:02] but we're low
[50:03] overwater which is is very corrosive to
[50:07] the airplanes so uh we have a different
[50:11] need to maintain the structures of those
[50:14] airplanes so we but we had never built a
[50:17] hanger large enough for us to do our own
[50:20] overhaul on these airplanes so we were
[50:23] Contracting it out so at one point it
[50:26] was job to be responsible for these
[50:29] overhaul and so we kept trying to get
[50:32] the Coast Guard to pay for an overhaul
[50:34] pay for I mean pay for a new hanger it's
[50:37] like $25 million or something and this
[50:40] was 20 years ago
[50:43] and it never it kept failing it kept
[50:46] failing it kept failing and so we came
[50:47] up with and I say we it was really not
[50:49] me it was the team came up with this
[50:52] idea where we could have we could put a
[50:56] contract in place that would through
[50:59] some creative Contracting result in us
[51:02] having a hanger built on our facility
[51:05] that we could do our own overhauls in it
[51:10] would just be using contract labor right
[51:13] so instead of instead of government
[51:15] employees we would be using contractor
[51:18] employees but we would be giving them
[51:20] all of the work cards we would be
[51:22] managing all of the work doing all the
[51:24] engineering so we built this we built
[51:28] this
[51:29] hanger
[51:31] um I it's this is when I started to
[51:35] learn about up and out right I thought
[51:38] we just needed to get it done right I've
[51:40] got my team I told my boss we're getting
[51:43] it done so you can lead follow or get
[51:46] out of the way because we're rolling
[51:47] down the road this thing is we're
[51:49] getting it done um so we got like I want
[51:53] to say $10 million from Elizabeth Dole
[51:56] you know in North Carolina to build the
[51:59] ramp and stuff and so it was big news it
[52:01] wound up in the newspaper the commandant
[52:04] of the Coast Guard who's you know about
[52:07] as far away from me at that time as
[52:09] Could Be Imagined he reads about it in
[52:12] the newspaper he is furious because he
[52:16] didn't know about right and so now he's
[52:19] angry the people underneath him that
[52:22] he's angry at they're now Angry and so
[52:25] when we had the grand opening and all of
[52:28] these you know from the commant on down
[52:31] had replied Lo Martin was all of their
[52:33] senior leaders sh was there uh I was a
[52:39] commander which is an' 05 which is not
[52:41] that big a deal I was the senior Coast
[52:43] Guard guy there everybody else bailed
[52:46] out the morning of the event when it was
[52:48] going to be uh uh when when we were
[52:51] having the grand
[52:54] opening and this is where I started get
[52:56] the idea
[52:58] that even if you're
[53:00] successful if important people aren't
[53:03] happy about it right
[53:06] then it's going
[53:08] to decrease the value of what you've
[53:10] done so now all these great people that
[53:12] did all this amazing work get this
[53:15] fantastic thing done don't get the
[53:16] credit that they deserve uh the building
[53:20] goes up we it's it's very successful and
[53:23] uh and once that common do left and the
[53:26] next one came in they started bringing
[53:29] Congressional delegations down and
[53:30] showing how great we were doing and
[53:32] stuff so it worked out but I think if I
[53:35] had had a coach you know during that
[53:38] period that would have helped me
[53:43] understand about a Communications plan
[53:46] right like your Communications plan
[53:49] can't just be I told my boss and
[53:51] literally when the Common's yelling at
[53:53] me uh I said I told my boss sir you know
[53:56] that's dumb it's so much bigger than
[53:59] that you why didn't I get it in the
[54:01] paper 6 months earlier right before it
[54:05] was already built uh what why did I not
[54:08] make
[54:09] sure all of these stakeholders were
[54:11] engaged and on board um you know and and
[54:17] I think having a coach would have helped
[54:18] me see that and and help me learn that
[54:22] lesson faster with fewer lumps and
[54:25] bruises
[54:28] yeah that sounds like a heroine
[54:30] experience I'm sorry you went through
[54:33] it right about the time the news article
[54:36] came out they they had one corner of the
[54:38] building up and we got a Micro Burst
[54:41] until the thing blew down and so now
[54:44] it's all this Twisted Metal and and oh I
[54:48] just thought oh yeah yeah when I left
[54:50] they gave me a picture of that Twisted
[54:52] building you know uh but then it we got
[54:55] it built and uh and it's it they built
[54:58] another copy of it now it's doing great
[55:01] oh good you got it reminds me what is I
[55:04] I learned this too in the chief of staff
[55:06] role not building anger is nothing
[55:07] nearly as important but uh I I want to
[55:11] tell my boss I enough projects where I
[55:13] hey bosses am I working with manure here
[55:16] like it doesn't matter if I spread the
[55:19] manure how well I spread it I'm still
[55:21] going to stink at the end of the day
[55:22] right like can we make sure maybe give
[55:24] someone else the bag this time you
[55:27] you want me you want me to just hold
[55:29] this until it sprouts some flowers or
[55:31] something what am
[55:32] I yeah
[55:34] exactly yeah I learned that lesson quick
[55:37] so now sometimes it's better to say no
[55:39] it doesn't matter how bad that garden
[55:40] needs to get built sometimes you just
[55:41] got to say maybe I'm not the right
[55:43] person to hold the mid this time right
[55:46] it's then that's a decision thing so I
[55:48] have a so my a daughter she was about 18
[55:52] months old and now she's a she's a PhD
[55:56] and in neuroscience and teaches at
[55:58] Harvard and it's one thing to think your
[56:00] kids are going to be smarter than you
[56:01] it's another one when they prove it but
[56:05] when she was 18 months old she wasn't
[56:07] that bright and uh and so she was eating
[56:10] raisins chocolate covered raisins right
[56:12] and uh and and uh she dropped them
[56:17] they're all in the carpet right and this
[56:20] is this shag carpet and so we start
[56:22] picking up the the uh uh the raisins out
[56:25] of the carpet and so she's picking them
[56:27] up and eating them and I said no no
[56:30] don't eat that no dooo I said it was
[56:33] dooo big mistake dooo and so then she
[56:37] starts crying right and just losing her
[56:40] mind because she thinks she's eating do
[56:43] and so I'm like no no no it's not dooo
[56:45] it's not D look and then I start eating
[56:46] it and she goes even worse she like
[56:49] daddy eats the
[56:51] dud it was a lot easier to go from
[56:55] chocolate covered raisins to doodo than
[56:57] it was from dooo back to chocolate
[56:58] covered raisins in uh in her mind and so
[57:02] that's a lesson that I've taken for me
[57:05] oh I've learned I've learned that one we
[57:07] got to be careful with your words right
[57:08] my daughter recently just to go on
[57:10] daughter stories for a second
[57:13] she we were playing a game and she's
[57:16] like hey Mommy doesn't let me do this
[57:17] all the time and so I said well you know
[57:19] it's okay for us just to bend the rules
[57:21] just sometimes you can bend it as long
[57:23] as you're not hurting anybody yeah it's
[57:25] okay to bend it a little bit oh man I
[57:27] should not have said that anytime she
[57:31] breaks the rule now she goes to Mommy
[57:33] and said daddy told me it's okay to bend
[57:34] the rules a little bit that's right
[57:37] oh oh man dug my own grave there just
[57:41] pass me a shovel you oh
[57:43] yeah hey we're already talking it's
[57:45] crazy we've already talking for an hour
[57:47] so it's time time's flying by um s i'
[57:50] love to take take the plane to a land in
[57:52] even though I'd love to talk to you for
[57:53] longer curious first
[57:56] where can people find you if they want
[57:58] to hire you and how can my audience or
[58:01] myself help you with your next step into
[58:03] this Executive coaching world yeah sure
[58:06] so my website is Shannon mcculler
[58:10] docomo it's just it's ends in AR so it's
[58:14] MCC L AR Jan mol.com and if uh if you'd
[58:18] like to talk to me about working
[58:20] together just schedule a call on there
[58:22] and we'll we'll chat and see if there's
[58:25] any that we might find exciting to do
[58:27] together so uh that's it for now I'm I'm
[58:32] you know my my website is is not the
[58:35] best in the world but it's it's getting
[58:37] there I've got a place to write and
[58:39] store stuff now and so it's I'm moving
[58:41] along but it's a start great I'll put
[58:44] the website and I'll put your LinkedIn
[58:46] in the in the chat below and then let's
[58:50] do do a fun rapid fire to launch it all
[58:52] off so all right all right okay so
[58:55] what's your favorite
[58:57] dessert well Pro there's a place here
[59:00] that sells the best uh apple pie they've
[59:03] got a like a butter pecan crust and man
[59:07] it is good with some ice cream on it so
[59:09] I'd say apple pie and ice cream if I'm
[59:11] ever out there that's my favorite
[59:12] actually apple pie no joke yeah warm
[59:14] apple pie and beat beat that with a
[59:16] little ice cream over cake any day um
[59:19] sweeter
[59:21] Savory in general in general i' say Yeah
[59:24] in general I I more Savory not not not
[59:28] sweet yeah what's uh what's your
[59:30] favorite leadership
[59:32] book this is aging myself here but I
[59:35] just reread uh the seven habits highly
[59:38] effective people it's amazing yeah yeah
[59:41] that one's great yeah Ste Stephen cvy it
[59:43] is uh it's
[59:45] absolutely it's still very timely it's I
[59:48] think it's great everyone should read it
[59:50] yeah Timeless
[59:53] yeah what's the most controversial
[59:56] helpful advice you've
[1:00:01] gotten
[1:00:03] um controversial helpful
[1:00:07] advice
[1:00:08] [Music]
[1:00:12] um let's
[1:00:19] see I don't I don't know if this is a
[1:00:23] good one um
[1:00:27] you don't have to wait 90 days in a new
[1:00:29] job to make changes right um if you take
[1:00:34] if you take a new job and um people are
[1:00:38] screaming at each other you don't wait
[1:00:40] 90 days to act on that so yeah so I'd
[1:00:45] say 90 days yeah you definitely want to
[1:00:49] seek first to understand right but it
[1:00:53] you can uh there are some things you
[1:00:54] already understand and you know and you
[1:00:56] can do before 90 days yeah that's
[1:01:01] good what's your least favorite common
[1:01:05] saying or common piece of advice that
[1:01:07] people hand out do Uno others as you
[1:01:11] would uh have them do un you I uh I
[1:01:14] think that is that's a great beginning
[1:01:17] spot but it's oversimplification because
[1:01:20] what you would have them do unto you is
[1:01:22] understand what you want and uh and then
[1:01:25] so is really do unto others as they want
[1:01:28] you to do unto them right and that takes
[1:01:31] more effort so taking the time and and
[1:01:35] especially as a leader to understand
[1:01:37] what your different people need it's
[1:01:39] like having four children all of them
[1:01:42] needed and wanted different things you
[1:01:45] know for one the worst thing you could
[1:01:47] do to him was send him to his room by
[1:01:49] himself for the other you know maybe the
[1:01:52] worst thing you could do was uh ground
[1:01:54] her from her phone right so but she
[1:01:56] didn't care it didn't bother her at all
[1:01:58] to get sent to her room you know so it's
[1:02:01] figuring out caring enough to notice
[1:02:04] what people really need and give it them
[1:02:06] that and it's uh is the next level yeah
[1:02:09] so hi bar yeah last
[1:02:12] one what if you imagine you got 15 to 30
[1:02:16] seconds to give some key advice to
[1:02:19] someone like just a lesson maybe younger
[1:02:22] version of yourself that you wish you
[1:02:24] had known and this is your stage you got
[1:02:27] a 15-second stage what would you say no
[1:02:30] pressure yeah oh honestly I would say
[1:02:38] um it's okay it's okay to treat your
[1:02:42] boss like a human being it's okay to
[1:02:45] love your boss and to treat them
[1:02:48] friendly I I was so afraid of being seen
[1:02:51] as a suck up you know that I would uh
[1:02:55] like I remember once a uh great guy that
[1:02:59] said hey man uh you want to go you want
[1:03:02] to go get a beer and I'm like well is is
[1:03:05] everybody getting to go you know like
[1:03:08] I'm not I'm not taking I'm not trying to
[1:03:11] get ahead of these other guys you know
[1:03:13] what I'm saying so this fear was and I'm
[1:03:16] you know so I missed so many
[1:03:17] opportunities to be mentored and to and
[1:03:21] to be have long-term friendships with
[1:03:25] these great human beings you just
[1:03:27] because they're a boss doesn't you know
[1:03:29] they're they're doe your I felt like
[1:03:30] they're due my loyalty my obedience you
[1:03:32] know my respect but you know affection
[1:03:35] is allowed as well that's I think I took
[1:03:38] more than 15 seconds but yeah no that's
[1:03:40] that's great and I I can confirm some of
[1:03:43] my favorite moments through my career
[1:03:44] I've been drinking beers with my boss
[1:03:46] beside behind a building you know or on
[1:03:49] top of the roof
[1:03:50] yeah after a tough job yeah yeah hey
[1:03:54] Shannon I can't tell you this was such a
[1:03:55] pleasure I really appreciate you being
[1:03:57] on and um I'll wrap this up I think it's
[1:03:59] a good place to close