Why High Performers Get Stuck, and How to Break Through

why do some people stop While others keep pushing why do some leaders Plateau While others rise today we're driving into the mindset of a leader who's coached over 3,000 sessions transformed hundreds of Executives yet still believes the best is ahead don't be afraid of conflict like positive conflict or productive conflict people leave bosses they don't leave organization what goes around comes around so if you start bad mouthing your boss your team will badmouth you and that will just feed into a toxic culture

but you can be the best coach in the world but not have a thriving business welcome to ambition align the podcast where top performers unlock leadership decision-making and success at the highest levels my guest today is Dr Laura Aziz an elite executive coach who has left a twod decade Consulting career to help top leaders break through their limits today we'll reveal why confidence alone won't get you ahead before we jump in what's the biggest leadership challenge you faced drop in the comments I'd love to hear your experience and if

you're serious about growth hit subscribe let's get into it what's driving you what's behind all of your Pursuit for something more thank you thank you Devon I uh I've been always driven by something bigger you know I'm always looking for watch snacks I don't settle for a status cope but I just want to for for the sake of clarity I coached 3, sessions but 500 people okay thank very CL not to give

any so 500 since I got certified by the ICF you know um International coach Federation prior to that I was a consultant in health information technology and I coached many people but before being the executive coach you know before before formally uh having that and that's was actually the driver like I saw how much people wanted to get better and I was always asked like how can we become Consultants you know what can we do to do something similar to

what you're doing now you know information technology applications in healthcare was very new like nobody really 20 years ago many organizations were still on paper so everybody was curious to what's next and then when they work with me on the projects is like how can we do what you're doing or what would you from from the other things you saw in other organizations what would you recommend we do to get to the next level like how can I become a

director how I can become a VP how can I get to the SE suite and then was an eye opening for me you know to see how I can help people and sometimes I say things not realizing how much it was an eyeopener for them like they never thought about it this way or never attempted to try it so that's that's where I uh enjoy my work and really bring a passion and and continue to feel excited about it thank you for clarifying only only

500 people in 3,000 sessions right only that's last four years in the last yeah since so so I pivoted to coaching early on in the pandemic I finished one big project I was on around May and that's where you know there were there was no travel no whatever so I there was no really projects at the time and I was thinking about coaching goong and taking some courses as time allowed so not having work and being stuck at home in many ways like many of us at that time

it was a good opportunity for me to catch up and I knew Andrew nle from the center of Executive coaching from a program he was offering at an organization was called wbx now it's coaching.com so I knew Andrew I liked his style and Andrew was a consultant before so there was this kind of um sense of he he understands what my experience is what I have seen and this bridging you know from Consulting to Executive coaching uh was a good thing

for me I felt like that was the right path and I joined um the center for Executive coaching uh and worked on it like double the time morning and evening sessions to finish the requirements and take the test the ICF test got the first one the ACC associate certified coach and then as soon as I completed the requirements I got the PCC professional certified coach so I'm working now on the master but that's a big a a big um

Endeavor you know it needs more it needs a lot of re visiting many of the coaching principles and competencies and also time time commitment a lot of time commitment so maybe by the end of this year or next year wow that's so amazing and so impressive to go so so quickly through all that so I'm curious how has that transition been for you since you've been through so many transitions so what's what's what's it like to be an executive coach compared to being a

consultant it's amazing it's beautiful uh we do after each session many of the companies I work with have a feedback survey after the session and uh the highest one is lifechanging that's like the best review you get and then the ne the one next to it is amazing and every time I get life changing I kind of feel like oh my God you know like I just want to pause and let everything stop and uh

think about it of how can one person in few minutes like most sessions will not be longer than an hour impact someone's life to that extent and I that's the power of coaching in the ability to listen to what someone is experiencing and being able to reflect and get them to think about it like is this true like asking them to is this

assumption true is the situation actually that or is this your interpretation and many times people do not in we are moving very fast life moves very fast and many companies people are especially executives are so stressed in time they kind of go from one meeting to the other there is no time to stop and think so it's the time they have for coaching if they have the privilege to have a coach is the only

time they have to pause and think and challenge automatic thoughts challenge assumptions and then the ability to renew our minds you know can we reframe that can we think about it in a different context or from a different angle and many when we get to that point that's kind of where people feel it's transformational that feels really I see the energy here of what makes you really like transforming or changing and positive influence in people's lives so

I'm curious what has been the largest struggle that you're seeing with people maybe recently Executives and what's some guidance like if you were imagine that someone in the audience that's listening right now is going through something similar to what most of the people coming to you are what would that problem be and how would you advise them in most leadership I was thinking I think about that every day so every day I take few minutes and think of what

were the themes that were that popped up in the coaching sessions I had and I tried to make connections and recently three Executives from three different indust indries the main thing they brought was effective communication effective executive level communication and it comes in different ways like some people

are too vocal people like uh get startled you know like you they are aggressive and their their peers or their teams feel like oh very hard to work with this person they do not see it as aggressive they feel passionate about it you know they are speaking but others who are slower or like to think about it feel that this person is aggressive and then it shows up in reviews or feedback and it hurts

them other people are the opposite other people are very uh conflict avoiding so they don't want to bring up any cont contradictory view but you cannot in in any organization you cannot just agree with everything there is always you know pros and cons to every situation so what happens with people who hold back usually they are people Pleasers you know they try to kind of

make everybody feel good then they end up getting very frustrated and and the the real Point here from a coaching perspective is how can you you go to meetings with an talking points with an agenda and not just sit and listen no like like speak up use your voice don't be afraid of conflict like positive conflict or productive conflict it's not a fight you know not every discussion is going to be a fight and that's where the work with

the coach the the accountability or the followup you know because these things do not change overnight right you kind of to be develop self awareness to monitor yourself how am I showing up in meetings how am I the tone of voice sometimes it's not about the words but the tone of voice and the facial expressions like can you say what you want to say with more Melody versus an order or a command can you smile so you're not showing that you're

upset these are like these are subtleties and I like to approach it from can we improve like 1% like can I do it one % better every day it's not going to be this is not going to be 180 degree change because part of our communication style is part of who we are part of our personality and how we were brought up you know some of it is like what you absorb from your family and and what you have been doing for many many years so I like to encourage them and support them

by saying like first be aware sometimes it's harder and I go for more like um specific things like people who like to speak quickly and don't allow time for others to share opinions I say put a note they use a yellow sticky note on your screen if it's a zoom call and say pause breathe and and kind of bit by bit they start to embrace that um that style of communication so communication is a big

one and then followed by if not on the same level executive presence wow and you have something really interesting that that's that's really useful I've seen the same uh in my career and my practice uh I'm wondering I had a my last guest or one of my last guests is a a female leader coach for software engineers and she had something similar where she said she noticed that women tend to have trouble being disagreeable and kind of articulating what they want more and men

can come off as overly aggressive in some of her practice and you brought it's interesting you brought that guidance of those two examp examples too I was wondering if you noticed that there's these traits um based off of our backgrounds from that perspective as well right and there are different ways to approach it like you can leverage emotional intelligence tool to bring in emotional regulation uh that's a big one we work on it for both men and women from different angles like how can we regulate emotions so we don't get too

upset or overreact like not swing like you don't want the pendulum swinging from being very passive to very aggressive or lashing out at people like how can we bring balance and um regulate our emotions and in regulating the emotion and that was a big executive actually uh senior VP I never forgot him I'm not going to say he name of a company or anything but um he was specifically interested in emotional regulation

because he used to be triggered like he would see a solution and believe that this is is the best thing to do and he have the data and he's sure there is no doubt but the other people are not at the same level they did not do all the research they do not NE are not convinced yet by his position his Speers actually I'm not here even talking about people on it so his peers would resist you know like no we will not do that no that's not going to fly and he gets

upset and L out of them but working on one year this was a long coaching engagement um and we worked on managing triggers and he took it to heart like I gave him references I gave him articles and books to read and there are some good thing quality resources out there and he took it to hard the key thing in coaching is if you you have to embrace it you want to be like coachable what we done to say willing to change or willing to try at least you know try new thing

so he took it to heart he practiced he would uh you know come back and tell me the scenarios and how he reacted and his scores on their feedback improved like he was recognized by HR and by his um boss that he did change and and that's I think the value of coaching is not just having time it I mean everything is great to have somebody to speak with and voice your concerns and try to adopt new

Behavior but to actually see in your 360 is obviously phenomenal you know to so so I know it works if if you apply the work you know if you work on yourself if you try to change uh that's great and I think that's an amazing way to frame it is it's kind of a force self-reflection but you can't force it right like what you're saying you H they have to be open to they have to be open to the process

and you've mentioned a few things I I really like the way you think here it sounds like you think in Frameworks a lot every every time you're talking through an example you give you give an example of how you measure the impact or a behavioral trait to fix and I know at least you correct me if I'm missing something here I saw you have some Frameworks that you've developed like the leap framework the Frameworks you developed or used um and I'm curious how do you use those tools or what are some of your F favorite Frameworks that you use in your practice to help frame some of these conver

ations yeah I mean there are lots of great resources I would say out there if you have the ability to collect them understand them and be willing to experiment with them yourself and then share them with the client at the right time like not everybody is interested in a framework like like sometimes it's like it can be overwhelming so in some instances I

would share one or two pillars of the framework like we don't need to overwhelm someone with an elaborate framework but we can take one or two so one of the foundational elements of many leadership Frameworks is having Clarity of vision because you want to know what you want what the company wants and all align them have alignment and

Clarity so I always started with that but in sometimes in the very first sessions people are not ready to stretch their thinking so we tend to revisit it again it's such a powerful it's such a it's such a deep question like if you ask someone I've asked people you know what do you want no one I feel that no one really it's such a hard question people don't really spend the time that

it deserves because it it really requires you to dig deep so if that's a beginning of clarity how do you get people to explore that question yeah very good point um I'll give you an example I had an executive in the pharmaceutical company and he was over word as many obviously it's a bit very tough industry many ways lots of benchmarks and and he was uh leading

actually research and development uh so working with very you know very highly educated people Everyone is very opinionated and he was always stressed out you feel like by the end of the day he doesn't have any energy and he wasn't sure what he wants to do you know should he leave research and development and go and work in operations where things are much easier uh should he look for some other work you know you know where he doesn't have to work all these long hours you know and and it was very hard question to

answer you know like it's someone's life his livelihood he had three kids and you know lots of responsibility and okay so we need more clarity on what he really wants you know what makes him happy what makes him feel proud of himself what's in his heart and the only way to get to that the only way to access that is doing something simple but nobody likes to do it unfortunately I don't know why is having some quiet time and reflecting and writing it down

like you have to give yourself I would say at least five minutes in the morning five minutes at the end of the day so I don't ask them to do like longer sessions alone because they don't have time but if you just take five minutes whether in the morning you know drinking your coffee tea or whatever you like to drink in the morning or as soon as you get to the office you know before you go to meetings and get you know busy with all the hassle that you have adored just give yourself this gift of some quiet

time and write down what's on your mind what are you thinking about first thing in the morning when you do it consistently so it's not the one time thing you want to do it consistently you start getting this Clarity of what is really important to you whether you want to stay in the same company you want to leave you want to stay in um research and development it you want to go to operations marketing

whatever if you consistently listen to the voice inside you in your heart in your mind you you eventually develop this Clarity and you ever seen something transformational just from that exercise and could you maybe give an example of it or someone or some I'm imagine someone said came to you and said I want to fix this and then you gave them this exercise and then they came back and said I didn't want to do that at all I want to do something completely

different was there ever a moment like that it it was the transformation was in having this certainty that I want to stay and I want to finish this projects I'm working on that I have power within me to organize myself and not be hijacked and triggered and working not having energy working too much time too much hours but I want to stay like this was

and this actually what happened in this exact uh situation you know where we after two weeks I think it was about two to three weeks of writing every day what what do I want asking your oneself you know what do I really want what where am I seeing value where am I seeing Joy do do I still like what I do do I still like this company the the teammates I have my peers my direct reports my boss and and this person that I have in

mind he finally stopped fighting with himself that of whether I should stay or go and decided to stay decided that he was happy here his boss likes him the work he's doing is good and all what he needs to do was to delegate more like not hoard like some people like to hoard the work you know they uh feel like they are the best ones to do it or actually I notic some people feel like my team is working so hard you know I don't want to give them more work so every request

these guys specifically that comes to mind now every request for information that came to him he took the time to go and find the information and it's like when he told me that and it was like really like your team you're the 30 people that H up to you nobody can go and find the information you have to stop the other things you're doing in between your senior level meetings or presentations you have to go and find information he said no I think anyone on

my team can get this information so it's like so why don't you delegate like why don't you you get the email request for some information and you send this email to someone on your team now please can you find this and find uh respond to this email like why not he said he thought about it and he said I don't know you're right it's amazing you work with such intelligent people and then it's some it seems like an obvious solution but you need to be outside of the box or what

one of my favorite mentors is right she always tells me you have to be outside the jar to read the label right that's a very good analogy absolutely so what that's really helpful so you start with Clarity hey where what do you want what what do you do after they get the clarity what's what's after that Stu yes so after Clarity we try to seek alignment so you Clarity and Alignment

then to go hand in once you're clear on what you want you want to align with those around you align with company goals because if there is no alignment then you want to transition to something else like you don't want to live in Conflict all along so once you have Clarity on what you want what you like what is uh and addressing Your Personal

Agenda then we seek alignment with boss very important I for many years I personally in my life my never really focus that much on the relationship with my boss but if you think about it having a positive empowering relationship with your direct manager is a transformative experience because in their hands like your promotion your reviews the opportunities that will come so that is

something that I learned the hard way and I try to share it with my um clients all the time like like you want and they say there is actually research from Gallop that they say people leave bosses they don't leave organization so that's an eye opening thing if you think about it you know like how can I help my boss and then there is also some research that I found trying to show my clients how to look at it from a bigger picture I found

articles published in Harvard Business Review what do you do if you don't like your boss what do you do even if you think your boss is toxic or incompetent and there is a strategy there is a methodology to address that to the extent you want to play it out if you feel it's too much then you want to think of how you can change that but it is that base pillar in our

career advancement is how to align with your boss to help your boss succeed because when you both succeed you will succeed you were working on the same team you know so that's that's a foundational element yeah I I it's so true I can't tell you how many times I've seen people fight with their bosses and it's the biting the hand that feeds you know you you guys should get along and make sure that you're working towards the same vision here um but and it's always it's

generally High performers too and people who really care right there's the one that Clash the most and and it's hard to think about it like you're not telling them not to care but it's either you can um I think the word that someone one of the senior coaches that I follow say like you are selling an idea but the person who's making the decision is the final voice so if you can convince them if you can sell your idea so if you think you're

selling you're not going to be fighting you know you're going to be more influential more persuasive show data show examples case studies be pleasant you know don't have you know don't be you know too aggressive or too um you know extreme in your opinions so you sell the idea but if you can sell it then live with the decision that the decision maker did you know don't fight it and

don't bed mouth them in their back like don't go and say oh this whatever you know this idiot or this uh crappy thing like B buy into it you know that's kind of essential for your reputation and because the idea behind it is what goes around comes around so if you start bed mouthing your boss your team will badmouth you and that will just feed into a toxic culture nobody's going to benefit from

that yeah something are you bring it so well the concept of Gossip right I see this a lot and it's it feels good I think it feels natural for people to gossip but they don't recognize that as soon as you gossip about somebody everyone recognizes that well I can't really trust this person anymore because they're probably going to gossip about me right and then it creates a culture of no trust fascinating so I I want to respect your time I know we only have a short amount of time today um I'm curious

you've gone through all of these different transitions what are you trying to accomplish in this next phase now that going to get you know you're going you're pretty close to getting your top certification in coaching what are you most passionate about right now and what's what are you pursuing that's a very good question I have lots of passion I be productive and and try to do whatever you know coach myself as well you know like uh which is a practice that most coaches are good at is okay also to get

coached you know like get or mentored you know and and part of getting a the MCC there is mentorship in it my ultimate goal will be two folds of to continue to coach in leaders in general I get I get lots of personal you know satisfaction and I feel like I have something to share and contribute but I want to also have um a practice for people getting into

coaching M because as you know there is a big interest these days in the profession of coaching and uh it's a big business Big Industry you know like a billion dollar industry so I feel like it's going to be a good a good um pivot or um if if it's if I consider it a pivot it might not be a real pivot it might just be different aspects of coaching but I feel there is

a great um great demand that can be uh used for the betterment of of the coaching profession and uh my theme is coach the person and the problem as you know there is a very famous book by one of the founders in coaching um called coach the person not the problem but if you look at it from the co the continum if you will of coaching

and Consulting it's going or coaching and mentorship it's going to be coach the person and the problem so I want to dig deeper into that that's great so coaching coaches but not just Lim meting it to coaching it's actually advising and helping solve problems mentoring yes because most coaches especially if they are transitioning like they leave their day job and they want to have a coaching uh business

coaching firm they need to also build a practice you know there is a business element to it like Co you can be the best coach in the world but not have a thriving business like how can you get people to know about your offers you know how can you get people to know what you can do for them whether it's the individual or the organization like team coaching for example is a

great professional development not just for people but for working together you know as teams and managing conflict and um having a positive healthy work environment so helping coaches to not just be great coaches but also have a thriving business so they live their life by Design not by default and enjoy what they do and be happy that's that's excellent um I'm

curious we have a few more minutes you bring up something really interesting of how there's the coaching business is growing and I there's a lot of layoffs right now people there A lot of companies are going through transition and making cuts and making decisions with AI uh are becoming more prevalent I'm really curious what how would you give some generic advice or coach someone who's going through a layoff right now or going through that type of transition

where they need Clarity that's been a little bit forced on them as a forcing function yeah very good question I've been working on that topic for a long time it's not new I actually have a LinkedIn live um the session that was dedicated to what to do if you are get L off and what to do to prepare you meet up for the layups and you know that it might it what how can you prepare yourself so it's kind of to

related but separate because if you are still employed gainfully employed what can you do today to be strong resilient so if it hits you know how to hit the ground running you know you're not going to sit in the corner and but if you're laid off and you got that news already how can you not let the emotions and negativity overtake you and try to isolate the sense of grief

there is grief obviously there is sometimes people feel like they don't know themselves you know like they their identity is so much ripped around their jobs so how can you acknowledge give yourself time to grief the loss and think in a practical way ideally if you can work with a coach to help you know kind of bring objective thinking and not be overtaken by negative emotion to what can I do like how is my resum is

my resum ready does it reflect my skills and experience in a positive way in a comprehensive way and then LinkedIn you know like is because if you think of your LinkedIn profile it's like a ling page any recruiter or any even friend or acquaintance that you say no I'm looking for a job any ideas then we look you up on LinkedIn so do you have a professional picture do you have a professional

background you know the the banner on top you know like is it easy for people to contact you and then thinking of some of the greatest achievements that you had in your career and right maybe it you without revealing anything that's confidential but wrting I gu tell you to show PA your skills so I like to leverage LinkedIn as a lending page and make it make let people

know what you how you can help them what have you done and then with that I work on and I do that whether it's a lay off or just Pi someone wants to get higher in the organization or are experiencing self-doubt or imposter syndrome symptoms to work on is Success inventory so just to bring a piece of paper or use the you know notes or anything on your laptop and write down from the time as far as can you can

remember all the successes that you had in your life in sports in hobbies in college if you're a parent you know raising your kids you know like all the positive things the accomplishments you had as a person as a human being and that's your success inventory and that will keep you strong the more you think about it and these things are not a onetime thing you know you have to kind of repeat you know embrace it every

day it's transformative you know it's like because you need to be internally feeling strong and happy about yourself so you can do well in interviews you know present yourself in the best best possible lines that's so that's such Timeless advice people I'm seeing right now are going need that encouragement or it's it's confidence a lot of them are really qualified and this the confidence H will get them and I completely agree and resonate that's excellent advice

uh if you have the time maybe we could have some fun just some rapid fire questions and then we'll wrap it up yes okay so what's your favorite leadership book yeah that's a that's a big question I like the concept of power be to have power be in your power and one of the very good books that came out last year is was written by Jen RTI the ex um CEO

of IBM and it's called good power it's a very good book I haven't read it I'll put it in my list it's great okay favorite dessert ice cream okay good flavor what flavor I like PR Prine Prine oh okay that's good that's good is good as well okay what's the worst advice everyone gives someone like the worst generic

advice oh that's hard um you do you yeah not a great one not a great one doesn't work all the time especially if the person's not doing that well right yeah not hping them okay F favorite way to take a day off what do you do what do I do if I have a day off yeah favorite way to relax I play with my granddaughters I have two granddaughters

they are amazing and I forget everything when I'm with them you know like everything is out and I'm just enjoying my time with them how old are they do you mind if I ask seven and 10 oh that's awesome my daughter's four and a half and it's just the most fun that's like such a fun age right they're just a blast yes they are amazing okay anything that any piece of advice you wish everyone could know right now like any just good piece of advice or a word of encouragement for the group selfcare focus on yourself if you're in

a good place you can help others and you can help the community help your family and you can do great in your career so start with self-care awesome and then what can my audience or me do to support you and whatever you're trying to accomplish with coaching coaches and continue your Executive coaching practice how can we follow you and what steps can we take to support you in your journey well thank you LinkedIn LinkedIn is a great place so um sharing you can follow me you can

connect with me you can send articles or podcasts you know uh it's a it's a great environment to be in you know lots of great content and uh a way for people to connect across Industries across timelines and it's it's really great that's awesome well hey thank you Laura so much for taking taking the time today it was really a pleasure talking to you and I hope we get to do it again sometime soon you Devon have a great day yeah you too by byee